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66 Comments

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 9:01 am
    • Permalink

    When we socialize medicine in the US, where will the Canadians go when they’re tired of waiting for treatment?

    And where will the rest of the world get their medical advances and new medicines?

  1. Umm….to Cuba?

  2. Thanks David for handling Norman’s essential question. An alternate destination, difficult to obtain passage to but near-perfect in its superb health care and all-around beneficence to its visitors, would be the island of Neverneverland.

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 11:27 am
    • Permalink

    Huh- Mom-?
    [...of course, within a few days, certain infections may cause Diversity life-time hearing damage, that Federal health care can pay for, for decades to come, SSI, plus other entitlements-!]

    So, while Allison is absorbed in her Lesbian dialectic arguments, or plays monopoly while stoned, on an Ouija board, the consequences of real-life decisions will not change.
    Liberalism IS a mental illness-!!!

  3. PERFECT summation, Steve! Especially that last sentence. For much more on that see http://www.libertymind.com/ –one of my all time favorite book-length exposes of the madness underpinning liberalism.

    • Michael K.
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 12:13 pm
    • Permalink

    Zack, I wouldn’t go to Neverneverland for treatment — Michael Jackson died there on his Neverland Ranch!

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 12:30 pm
    • Permalink

    Michael-
    No – when this odd-ball ‘assumed room temp.’, he was no where near his pervert-land ranch. Now, M Jackson may have ‘sold his soul’, there on his ‘Neverland Ranch’… but I think you will find the record shows he croaked elsewhere. If you recall, when his little twisted secrets were made public, he felt his secret rooms and ‘special places’, were too compromised. I am disgusted that I recall this much about this idiot-!
    Minor issue – he has plenty of $$$ for the twisted alterations to his face… and whatever else-!

  4. Michael K: It’s still a good line, even if Steve T. had to go and throw cold neverwater on it. And you’re right Steve, I may need to consult you next time I do a Michael cartoon… though, come to think of it, there probably won’t be any more need for those. Though, I like the way you end with “…he has plenty of money…” (in the present tense). Is there something you’re withholding about Michael? Or are you trying to be the very first in the country to start the “Michael LIVES” ball rolling, a la Elvis?

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 3:38 pm
    • Permalink

    Mike and his father-in-law Elvis are both upstairs at Graceland (where the tourists are never allowed to go). Jerry Garcia’s alive, too, and he visits Elvis regularly.

  5. Norman: Fantastic. I always thought those first two would be more at home living in a theme park rather than the real world. Jerry’s there too? Walking around, or frozen for future resusitation?

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 5:01 pm
    • Permalink

    I have a friend known for tall tails. In the dark, if one is under the influence, my friend looks a lot like Jerry Garcia. He said that one day, he was standing outside a 7-11, waiting for his friends, a Dead-head staggers up to him and says, “Jerry? They told me you were dead!” My friend, always the card just raised an index finger to his lips and said, “shhhh!”

    So, if anyone else says Jerry’s alive, you’ll know the rumor’s origin.

  6. Just the word “Centralized” scares me quite a bit. Americans do not realize what is going on around them?

    As for Cuba, malnutrition is the main topic over there, forget free health care for now, let’s discuss that later. Let’s concentrate on the most important things first, ok?

  7. Norman: Again, excellent stuff. Makes me wish I looked like someone famous & dead so I could try it.

    Jose: Our one saving grace is that at least a lot more of them are getting wise than were a few months ago when they were building marble shrines to him. And yeah– in Cuba, forget getting free health care, how about just getting free?

  8. godless: Thanks– that’s actually one of the more cogent and articulate remarks I’ve heard lately from a liberal.

    Ever try “thought?” It’s really neat, you should give it a shot sometime.

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 7:37 pm
    • Permalink

    Zack – where did this cannabis-on-the-brain ‘godless liberal’ [G.L.] come from-? I took for granted, over my last several weeks of enjoying D.L., that these freak-show liberals would remain within the constraints of YOUR pen and artistic control… NOW, one of them -that is YOU, G.L. [such an appropriate name] is loose, has access to a real keyboard-!
    To dignify this mental-midget’s comments, with a reply, really is no fun. And look -he is in love with “gay” marriage. Hey, G.L. – is that YOU, making national news by French-kissing your boyfriend on the Mormon church property-? Do you have some extra time between your last “gay” pride event, and when your next stash of weed comes in-?
    “You” people, like YOU, G.L. – your twisted & predictable way of ‘feeling’ (note: thinking is beyond you), and parroting all the Bush derangement slogans…you are so boring-!
    Zack – do you, from time-to- time permit characters like G.L. run around among us, so you get idea’s for the next spawn of Alex Lane-?

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 7:43 pm
    • Permalink

    Congratulation’s GL-!! – your leftist intellect, potty-mouth included, has brought out your really functional vocabulary… do you flush, when you talk-? Do you kiss your mommy with THAT mouth-?
    Grow up – and try to engage idea’s without your sewer-tooth-!

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 8:42 pm
    • Permalink

    Hi Godless-!,
    The answer is easy, it helps folks, some like you, to visually track between idea’s in print.
    One think your sub-culture cannot grasp about fundamental conservatism, is that we tend to operate from a few basic tenants;
    Speaking for myself-
    1. Words MEAN things — regardless how much you ‘libs’ like to change them, and confuse the issues.
    2. Idea’s have consequences — and so does YOUR behavior, like the weed you consume, and all the fun you have in your sweaty bathhouse, with your same-sex partner. As you see your rump-ranger friends die from AIDS, and/or from a range of other STD’s, you can blame Ronald Reagan for it-!
    3. Truth is NOT “relative” — (no matter how much you disagree)

    Now, all those hyphens can help you focus your anti-Christian rage on ME-!!

    • Bro
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 9:55 pm
    • Permalink

    “2. Idea’s have consequences — and so does YOUR behavior, like the weed you consume, and all the fun you have in your sweaty bathhouse, with your same-sex partner. As you see your rump-ranger friends die from AIDS, and/or from a range of other STD’s, you can blame Ronald Reagan for it-!”

    Whoa, don’t beat that strawman too hard, Steve. You might break it and then you couldn’t win arguments anymore.

  9. Godless liberal = liar.

    • Bro
    • Posted July 20, 2009 at 11:59 pm
    • Permalink

    But really the biggest problem with these types of comic is the fact that the other side is exactly who the author wants them to be. They can’t be people, they have to be the personification of a talking point, they have to be either GOD-HATING LIBERAL MINORITY LOVING FAG or CONSERVATIVE REDNECK MILITANT RACIST. The only way it ever goes is

    Person A:GAY MARRIAGE IS BEAUTIFUL/ AN ABOMINATION
    PERSON B: Snide remark.

    Bam. I just wrote every Diversity Lane and every other political cartoon ever.

  10. oh wait! i get it now! because everyone who voted for obama is a neglectful parent! ho ho ho, diversity lane, i don’t know just how you manage to boil the issues down so succinctly, but here are 5 gold stars and a pat on the back.

  11. You’re right, Bro– why should anyone bother writing or drawing satire henceforth, since you’ve so brilliantly handled it all for the rest of the world and for all time with this one comment? What a relief– now we can all go back to painting landscapes and writing novels.

    aaron: No– more like “neglectful thinker.” Though, from that ensues a whole host of follies and neglectfulnesses. But as his poll numbers continue to sink and slide downward, all but the True Believers will eventually have their eyes opened. Just watch and wait. It’s already starting to happen, as witness today’s Op Ed column by Obama supporter David Brooks, entitled “Liberal Suicide March.”

  12. Thanks Steve T. for trying to handle the angry child who came in here and wasted a bunch of my comment space (godless liberal). I’ve deleted lots of his cursing and raving but kept the more semi-organized of his thoughts, just as a sort of confirmation of my work. Actually I have only me to blame; thought initially it might be fun to have such as him popping in here and there with an opposing opinion, but it swiftly turned into a sort of shreiking obscene cacophany and I just don’t care to inflict that on my more normal readers. Stop in and comment if you like, godless, but keep it civil.

    • CovertSushi
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 7:15 am
    • Permalink

    Did you guys just assume that health care was automatically free and organized by the government? French doctors (oh no the French not them those godless bastards) actually compete for their government jobs so they can keep doing their thing; last I checked, competition was good for keeping standards high.

    I don’t consider myself liberal or conservative because in most cases, both sides have valid points. But super-conservatives and liberals are ridiculous. Neither is specifically ruining the country, but it’s undoubted that people like Glenn Beck and Ingrid Newkirk both have a hand in making the rest of the world think we’re a bunch of idiots.

    Steve T is a presumptuous ass. I can’t believe that you’d fly off the handle and accuse someone of smoking pot for absolutely no reason. And putting words in quotations to add emphasis or whatever you’re going for doesn’t even make sense… Why the hell is “gay” in apostrophes and quotations?

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 7:18 am
    • Permalink

    So, liberal without God, you say most people in the country are liberal. First off, that’s the “bandwagon” fallacy; if enough people believe it, it must be true. Truth is not up for vote; the true is true even if no one in the world believes it.

    Secondly, have you seen your president’s approval ratings lately? A stimulus that failed in all things except enlarging the national debt, the virtual nationalization of the banking and automotive industries, an attempt to fix the non-problem of global cooling/warming that won’t even do its intended goal, and a health car “reform” that will make private health insurance illegal by 2013.

    “From each according to his ability to produce, to each according to his need” then no one will produce.

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 8:10 am
    • Permalink

    Zack – As I have been around DL for just a few weeks, I was not sure how often the lefty fruit flies buzz in and be obnoxious. And, to what degree you may like to ‘play around’ with them. Perhaps, it has been part of the ‘terrain’ for you, and I decided to let those shallow and vapid replies of godless & bro alone.
    Godless – for your information, neither of those Republicans have had a “..free pass”. Both have been widely exposed, NO one from their RNC base has offered them political shelter, of any consequence. By all accounts, their political careers are toast, or soon to be. The people of their respective states get to decide that. The circumstances around & including their poor and inexcusable behavior has certain and VERY significant difference; Regarding B Clinton, the whole MSM mobilized with his party to defend him after he, while a sitting President, LIED UNDER OATH to the face of a Federal Judge. That IS a fact…”facts are stubborn things…” [ref. John Adams].
    Assorted other corrupt & caught Democrats have had the luxury of the media ignoring their scandal, and usually having their party ‘circle the wagons’ around them. Obama’s cabinet is LOADED with tax cheats. No consequence for their illegal behavior. Hillary Clinton, a primary officer in her husband’s library foundation, has a grotesquely HUGE conflict of interest in being the U.S. Secretary of State. The Clinton Library has received many tens of millions of dollars from foreign governments (largely Arab). Hillary, Bill & Chelsea, as the three managing officers, each receive large six-figure incomes from that foundation. And now, she is the Secretary of State, who makes thousands of decisions from week-to-week, steering nearly invisible, hundreds of millions of foreign aid dollars, all over the world.
    Godless, can you get your brain around this-? This is ‘the mother of all’ conflicts of interest. The real-world consequences of her decisions have life & death implications.
    Everything I just stated IS verifiable & factual.
    Where is your outrage? If you are not a “hypocrite”, you ought to be more concerned about her, than about an obscure Republican Senator or a dumb, clumsy Republican Governor
    I consider those two Republicans as foolish and regrettable characters. They would NEVER get my vote. Also, you presume that I will judge your eternal future. Again, you delve into arrogant presumption. What does it mean to be “…a big fan of Christianity.”? I doubt you have a truthful answer. Either you subordinate yourself to the Scripture, or you do not (cherry-picking included).
    Zack decides to ignore you for a while, and you launch at him with an obscene & offensive suggestion. That says a great deal about your judgment, your temperament,… about YOUR character.
    Godless, you are a conspicuous and shameless example of “..the arrogance of ignorance”, or otherwise, a perfect liberal.
    Bro – either you are young & naive, and you subscribe to parroting lots of ‘politically correct’ liberal slogans, or you are a ‘bird of the same feather’, as godless.
    Why do you two want to hang around this blog? Why not go back to your familiar home of the Demorat Underground, or MoveOn.bed-wetter ?

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 8:13 am
    • Permalink

    Alright Sushi, you are definitely a hardcore and proud moderate. Perhaps you have that best-selling book,’ Great Moderates in History’-? Part of your presumptuousness, is that you are ignorant of what words mean. The word ‘gay’, for generations, has meant happy. It was hijacked by the homosexual community, who like to cover-up their mentally ill behavior, with soft and gentle language. Up until the mid-20th century, homosexual behavior has ALWAYS been considered aberrant, destructive personal behavior, and it still fits the definition of dysfunctional and maladaptive behavior. Pick your favorite “gay” celebrity, and the overwhelming chance is that he/she came from some very traumatic childhood experiences, typically involving serious estrangement from any father-figure, or at least a destructive one.
    Calling homosexual behavior for what it IS, is one of the most egregious sins against the ‘PC’ culture. The real medical and health-impacting consequences are not affected by the mindless propaganda that claims homosexuality is “…just another valid lifestyle”.
    Do you own homework. The objective & verifiable medical statistics of the diseases that riddle that active male homosexual population, are shocking and stomach turning. You doubt it? Go see for yourself then, if you want to exercise some intellectual honesty, you ought to be very, very angry about the MSM ignoring this.
    I use “gay”, because there is NOTHING gay about homosexuality. It is no coincidence that as a group, rates of drug abuse, suicide, partner abuse… are head-over-heels above the heterosexual population.
    Last item; go find the average life expectancy of male homosexuals. It speaks for itself.
    Sushi, there was nothing presumptuous in my characterizations that disturbed you. It takes a little back bone to deal with facts and their consequential reality. Try it sometime!

  13. What the hell are you trolling here for, Hopeless maobot?

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 11:40 am
    • Permalink

    Steve T: As we learned with our interaction with Kool-Aid Man, the best way to deal with liberals is to use facts and logic. Take one of their claims and refute it reasonably. Let THEM resort to ad hominem attacks. Also, once you’ve picked a claim to refute, stay on topic. It is a lefty tactic to change the subject once they sense their view is being successfully refuted. Our repeated demands that Kool-Aid Man answer a specific, politely asked question drove him away.

    Liberal without GOD: Earlier in this discussion, someone said “words mean things” and you agreed (I think; I’ll have to look back). The word “gay” used to mean happy and joyful, as in describing the 1890′s as “the Gay Nineties” (please excuse the spelling). Now, it means something completely different.

    • Bro
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 11:45 am
    • Permalink

    Stephen Colbert is satire. This is satire like Glenn Beck is satire.

    Also, the government actually has a website dedicated to informing the public of where their money is being spent: http://www.recovery.gov/?q=content/investments

    There’s also a non-government associated website for spending here: http://www.usgovernmentspending.com/year2009_0.html

    So if they’re hiding the budget they’re doing a pretty piss poor job. And Steve T, I’m not entirely sure what liberal PC slogans I was parroting as I didn’t come here screaming about any talking points at all really.

    Lastly I will provide everybody with an example of a straw man argument from Wikipedia

    1. Person A has position X.

    2. Person B disregards certain key points of X and instead presents position Y.
    Thus, Y is a resulting distorted version of X and can be set up in several ways, including:

    1. Presenting a misrepresentation of the opponent’s position and then refuting it, thus giving the appearance that the opponent’s actual position has been refuted.[1]
    2. Quoting an opponent’s words out of context — i.e. choosing quotations which are intentionally misrepresentative of the opponent’s actual intentions (see contextomy and quote mining).[2]
    3. Presenting someone who defends a position poorly as the defender, then refuting that person’s arguments – thus giving the appearance that every upholder of that position (and thus the position itself) has been defeated.[1]
    4. Inventing a fictitious persona with actions or beliefs which are then criticized, implying that the person represents a group of whom the speaker is critical.
    5. Oversimplifying an opponent’s argument, then attacking this oversimplified version.

    3. Person B attacks position Y, concluding that X is false/incorrect/flawed.
    This sort of “reasoning” is fallacious, because attacking a distorted version of a position fails to constitute an attack on the actual position.

    • quadrophenia
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 2:04 pm
    • Permalink

    I adore how Steve T calls homosexuality a ‘mental disease’, despite the overwhelming body of moral, scientific, and genetic evidence that contradicts this bigoted, disgusting sentiment. I only frustrate myself with the perusal of these goddamn comments – you people resort to hypocrisy and ad hominem to attack people with valid points. These cartoons are enjoyable mental lapses because they are cushioned in great ignorance and political polarity. If you’d take the time to digest the political hemispheres, you’d find a comfortable place in between, instead of resorting to factious nonsense. Alas, this post will be disregarded or deleted.

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 3:46 pm
    • Permalink

    Liberal without GOD: Thank you for illustrating my point about the tactic of changing the subject. You had better pray (pun intended) that you are right about GOD not existing.

    Quadrophenia: In “Oath of Fealty,” a science-fiction novel my Jerry Pournell and Larry Niven (please excuse the spelling), there was a line running through the entire novel that went, “Think of it as evolution in action.”

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 5:04 pm
    • Permalink

    I will offer no proof of GOD’s existence, because I believe such a proof to be impossible.

    Godel’s first incompleteness theorem states “Any effectively generated theory capable of expressing elementary arithmetic cannot be both consistent and complete. In particular, for any consistent, effectively generated formal theory that proves certain basic arithmetic truths, there is an arithmetical statement that is true, but not provable in the theory.”

    I believe that the statement “GOD exists” is one of those statements that, although true, cannot be proven. I believe that GOD created the mathematical system that governs the universe with this specific result, because, if one could prove the existence of GOD as a mathematical theorem, there is no room for faith.

  14. You’re a rude little bastard liberal.

  15. Zack…time to squash this little red bug.

  16. Thanks for the tip, David. It was a remarkable confirmation of all my values to see this self-styled “godless” trash living out before our eyes the very quintessence of an unholy and miserable mindset: cursing, angry, squalling, in all ways an infantile id in the body of a putative adult. Thanks, godless, for demonstrating for all my readers the breathtakingly stupid and mean-spirited psyche of the typical Leftist. Your ravings have been cleansed from my site (and will from this point continue to be, in the same way I like my yard clean of trash and cigarette butts), but you provided a few moments of priceless confirmation for us all.

  17. That sniveling little fourth reich vermin was not just evil, he was a brazen liar, and a cretin to boot.

  18. These libtrolls are unemployed racist bigots subsisting on gubmint cheese and grape kool-aid, courtesy of their God, B. Hussein Hopeychange.

  19. Hey Jake…why do you hate blacks?

  20. Why do you hate blacks, Jake? How long have you been in the Ku Klux Klan?

  21. You trolls, like your octaroon messiah, are finished.

  22. You’re dead.

  23. Don’t you have a gubmint cheese voucher to cash in, you dead, dead troll?

  24. ACORN stole it, you heap of commie phlegm. You’re a coward. Go die somewhere public.

  25. Who are you exactly?

  26. You’re history. Shove it…you and your alts.

    • a godless liberal
    • Posted July 21, 2009 at 11:31 pm
    • Permalink

    Let me ask you again since you seem oblivious to the fact that I want a serious answer. Do you think it’s possible for someone not to be a conservative, and at the same time also not be a satan-worshiping pothead?

  27. Must be nice to be “funemployed.” You’re gone, scum.

  28. Enjoy your last blaze of glory here…you’re dead.”

  29. Go ahead. Then I’ll know who YOU are.

  30. CHECKMATE. Adios, corpse.

  31. A godless, what do you want from life? What are your aspirations? Please explain, what a Liberal is? What makes you a Liberal? How do you want the future of America to look like? Why are you so upset at Conservatives and who gives you the right to think that you are better than them? Who is Obama? What is Obama to you? Is Obama your god or your saviour or neither? Do you know what Socialism is? Do you know what Communism is? Did you ever live in a country where their was a Socialist government? What about a country with a Communist government? What about a country where there was a Dictatorship? What did you learn in School? About how many “real close” friends do you have? Do you read Liberal websites? And if you do, which ones? Are you gay? Are you Bi-sexual? Do you believe in life after death? Roughly, how old are you? What did you major in College, if you ever finished college? Do you make a lot of money in your job or you don’t work? How many dependents do you have? Have you ever been in jail? Have you ever been arrested? How much meat do you eat a month? How much sugar do you eat a month? What are the names of your next door neighbors? Did you vote for Obama? Did you vote for McCain? Are you a Democrat? Are you a vegetarian? Do you have any pains in your body? Do you get frequent headaches? Did you donate any money to the Obama campaign? What type of work do you do?

    Fill out the questions here and please go to part B of your application!

  32. Exactly, Godless! But these are the questions that will be put to you when the government (No matter what kind it is) gets total control of you and its citizens. So fight for your rights because if you don’t, then they will control YOUR life and you will be their slave. Small government is the way to go and this Obama government is too damn big! The less power “they” have, the more freedom “you” will have. Remember, you voted for them, “YOU” tell them what to do. Don’t let “THEM” tell you what to do! This government is now telling everyone how to live their lives and if you don’t see that, then you are totally blind or you just trust them and accept it. And if you accept it, you know what that means? “Fill out that application” or you will not receive any aid. Fight for your rights! Trust yourself, don’t trust anyone else. That Godless, is INDIVIDUALITY! And this Obama administration is big on taking it away. It is succeeding, especially with the youth. They are becoming robots now. Soon they will be waving their revolution flags, you know, the red ones. That’s all I got to say. You, of course, can reply to my statement, that’s your right!

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 5:57 am
    • Permalink

    Ah, I see that you are continuing to censor posts in the name of liberty. Quite cowardly, don’t you think? Oh, and I am not “godless liberal”‘s sock puppet. I am just another person who thinks you are a hypocritical fool.

    To restate my previous point.

    “one of my 50-odd beefs with liberalism: its emotion-ridden, hysterical hate-spewing in lieu of cohesive argumentation.”
    I didn’t know Glenn Beck was a liberal.

    Furthermore, to borrow your rhetoric, one of my beefs with conservatives is that they decry political correctness and claim to be supporters of freedom, and yet conservatives always rush to delete opposing comments, cut the mics of those who dare to cite facts that run counter to their deluded views, and otherwise attempt to censor those who hold views that do not fall in line with the conservative party line.

  33. Why do you even bother coming here then? Are you that unemployed?

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 6:24 am
    • Permalink

    Are you?

  34. Just skeedaddle off back to Tom Tomorrow’s blog to be with all your ideological lemmings.

  35. Hey Zack, that godless liberal hero created an alt using my exact name and hotlinked to my URL…please delete the post just above Jose’s.

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 6:44 am
    • Permalink

    Davey,

    Not everyone is as terrified of other view points as you and the creator of this site obviously are. Just because you feel that the only way to validate your own views is to post exclusively on websites that espouse ideas you agree with doesn’t mean that everyone else feels the same. I am confident enough in my views to read and post on sites that I disagree with. I guess your grip on reality is so tenuous that you fear that simply being exposed to alternative beliefs may cause your whole world to collapse. It must be tragic to be a small man living a life of fear.

  36. You’re gone, too, troll.

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 7:00 am
    • Permalink

    Oh no, opposing view points. Run and hide.

    Don’t piss yourself out of fear, Davey. A grown man terrified of comments on the Internet. How shameful.

  37. Why did you create all those alts, godless liberal?

  38. Took care of your request, David. Thanks, and– remember, it does little good to try to engage intellectually with the mentally ill. Some of the libs coming here are civil in their comments and that’s fine, but the uncivil won’t be granted space here anymore and it might be best to ignore them when they do show up. Cheers!

  39. Yeah…good call. I hate it when people spit on my furniture and demand my gratitude for doing so in the name os “tolerance” and (no pun intended) “diversity.” BTW…look on your Facebook page.

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 7:31 am
    • Permalink

    I am not an alt of “godless”. Are your truly so insular as to believe that there is only one person out there who disagrees with you?

    • a godhaving liberal
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 8:24 am
    • Permalink

    dear david i have now seen the error of my ways please forgive me


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