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43 Comments

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 7:49 am
    • Permalink

    Have a link for the 83% claim?

  1. It’s from an ABC News/Washington Post poll of last month. http://abcnews.go.com/PollingUnit/story?page=1&id=7910801

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 8:19 am
    • Permalink

    Zack – that appears to be a very attractive ‘anchorette’,…can Diversity get away with watching the Fox News channel-?

  2. Steve: Only as long as Alex or the others don’t know what channel she’s watching.

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 8:44 am
    • Permalink

    Interesting how you cherry picked your data for the cartoon. One could just as easily use the same data and create a cartoon showing that Americans are almost 2 to 1 in favor of health care reform. The data could also be used to show that nearly 60% of Americans are dissatisfied with the health care system as a whole. Furthermore, the results also showed that 62% of those surveyed support having a government insurance plan in addition to private insurers. I think the only real conclusion that can be drawn from this data is that most Americans aren’t really sure what they want done about health care, but they feel that something needs to change to improve the overall system.

    I also feel that choosing the “Quality of Care” statistic to make your point is a bit of an equivocation. The general feeling that I get from speaking to people, both for and against reform, is that the quality of their treatment is the best in the world. The issue of health care reform is not about quality, it is about cost and access. I haven’t listened to Obama’s remarks about the proposed reform, but so far I have neither read nor heard anything that suggests that people want to reform health care in order to improve the actual quality of their doctors.

    Oh, and Steve, I am pretty sure the French have Fox news beat in the anchor department. Look up Mélissa Theuriau.

  3. Thanks Jake. I do pick and choose the material for my work which best reflects my own instincts about a given situation; in an item like this there are as you say a variety of ways to look at the same poll results. All creative types (columnists, cartoonists, etc.) focus in on the info which best fits their own instincts or vision about a given story. We’d get odd and useless results indeed were we to try to reflect every angle of every story we cover… it would certainly make for an exceptionally busy cartoon.

  4. Matthews: FOX News is biased!!1!
    Olbermann: FOX News is biased!!1!
    Maddow: FOX News is biased!!1!
    Schultz: FOX News is biased!!1!

    Independent confirmation..not required.

    • Melek
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 9:34 am
    • Permalink

    Zack,

    Another great depiction of the reality of our days(unless your “reality” stems from cognitive dissonance). Thanks! I’m glad that in spite of collectivist pressure, you remain an individual (the smallest minority) …

    Just like everything in this administration’s progressive agenda, Health Care reform is being advanced and pushed with the “perceived crisis” tactic … talk about “the politics of fear” …

    Lets not forget the reliable “illusion of consensus” so prevalent these days, utilized to neutralize opposition … the “Because the people want it…” I can’t help but ask who “the people” are? LOL!!!

    I wish you well 🙂 Melek

    “Obamacare would lead to health care with the compassion of the IRS, the competence of FEMA, and the well staffed work force of our border patrol at a much higher cost, but on the upside, you won’t live as long, so you’ll have less time to complain about it.” – John Hawkins

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 10:23 am
    • Permalink

    Jake: I heard that when the pollsters ask follow-up questions about specific aspects of Obamacare, the 2-to-1 in favor numbers drop precipitously, but I don’t have the links to support that memory.

    Private insurance companies cannot compete with government insurance companies, because the former must make a profit while the latter need not. Also, the government can pass laws favoring itself over private companies, and giving employers incentives (both carrot and stick) to drop private insurance.

    The goal on the left is to make as many people as possible dependent upon government, so that they will continue to vote for the party that provides the goodies that make and keep them dependent. Government largess is more addictive than tobacco.

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 10:26 am
    • Permalink

    I’m not entirely convinced that for profit private insurance companies are any more compassionate than the IRS or more competent than FEMA. Obama’s plan is probably not the answer (although it still seems to be in the planning process, so I will reserve judgment until the final draft of the bill starts making its way through congress), but I, like the majority of the people in the poll cited by ABC, feel that maintaining the status quo is not the way to go.

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 10:31 am
    • Permalink

    Norman,

    I am overseas right now, and the country I am residing in offers both private and government insurance and hospitals. Both sectors seem to be doing well, both here and in other countries that offer tiered health care services.

    The government could pass laws to benefit itself, but I think you are denying the power of well funded lobbyists. Why vote for laws that support the government when you can vote for laws that will get lobbyists to pay for your home renovations?

    • Zack R
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 10:36 am
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    Beautifully put, Norman. What liberals/leftists fail to understand is that Big Government is no more to be trusted than Big Business– is in fact far less to be trusted than Big Business because, well, it’s the biggest of the Big Businesses, aside from other incalculably serious operational flaws such as those referenced in your comment (e.g. addiction). It betrays an astounding naivetee (or a proto-religious faith in government) to fail to grasp this extremely simple point. Yet, what have ever been the source of most of the horrific misery on earth if not various Big Governments throughout the centuries?

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 10:44 am
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    I’d say religion has contributed at least as much to human misery as government has.

    I’m pretty sure certain races/classes declaring themselves to be superior to other classes/races and using this belief to justify slavery has probably also caused a great deal of misery throughout history. Incidentally, the Bible has several verses that support slavery and define the terms of servitude, which supports my previous point.

  5. Jake: Which religions, and where, have wreaked mass-murder and enslavement on the scale of Mao’s China; Stalin’s USSR; Hilter’s Germany (all Big Governments, all atheist)? Of course you’re right that religions can go very, very wrong; everything can, Education included. But in the matter of scale, there is historically not the remotest comparison between religiously inspired carnage, and the human slaughter in the scores of millions perpetrated by the communists and totalitarians cited above (and there are others).

  6. Melek: And another terrific point from you: the reminder that the individual is, after all, the smallest minority of all. You would think liberals would hail the individual opiner as exercising free speech, etc. etc., but as we’ve all seen, a certain sector of the Left cannot read or view opposing points without resorting to incivility and primitive hatred. And these are the same types that generally think themselves to be compassionate and openminded!

    • Jake
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 11:25 am
    • Permalink

    Hitler’s Germany was a continuation of the persecution of the Jews that was perpetrated by the Catholic and Protestant churches in Europe ever since Roman converted to Christianity. Also, citing Hitler as an atheist is dubious at best.
    “In public, Hitler often praised Christian heritage, German Christian culture, and professed a belief in an Aryan Jesus Christ, a Jesus who fought against the Jews.”(Steigmann-Gall, 2003).

    The Crusades resulted in very large causalities on both sides. The Spanish Inquisition, the Salem Witch trials, the use of Christian doctrine to support the persecution of the Jews, the destruction of Jericho (if the Bible is to be believed), the conflict in Northern Ireland, 9/11, the Thirty-years War and the English Civil war (to some extent), the Armenian Genocide, and the list goes on. So, while no single event can compare to Mao and Stalin, in the grand scheme of things religion has been causing suffering for far longer than either of those dictators (I am ignoring Hitler for reasons cited above) and has certainly directly afflicted a far greater percent of humanity than both of those regimes combined.

  7. WAHH-WAHH: In any totalitarian state or dictatorship, the masses are educated by teachers who spoonfeed them pure propaganda from kindergarten through college. Similarly, Palestinan children are taught from textbooks depicting Jews as pigs and apes. There are countless classrooms of deception of this sort throughout the globe.

    • Steve T
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 1:11 pm
    • Permalink

    Zack – are some of these fruit-fly libs changing their name?
    WAHH WAHH seems to have the same reprobate mental & character DNA as godless does, or did.

    Also, have you had some recent exposure to new markets?
    I do not remember these little lefty-‘lice’ showing up in many of your earlier postings, and in these last two postings, it seems like a grade school food fight.
    Or, is this merely part of this business?

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 1:27 pm
    • Permalink

    I love the way leftists change the subject when their points are being refuted. Jake brings up religion to change the subject away from statist government, and someone else keeps harping about grammar.

    When Salmon Rushdee published a book blasphemous of Islam, Muslim clerics demanded that he be killed. I know of no Christian cleric of any denomination demanding the death of Dan Brown, or any of the other authors denouncing GOD (especially the Christian view of Him).

    Name a Christian church-sponsored war (or other mass-killing) from the 20th century (lone madmen nonwithstanding). The religious wars of England before the late 18th century influences the Founders of this country to avoid a state church like England’s Church of England.

    • Anonymous
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 1:39 pm
    • Permalink

    I’ll just drop in and tell you where WAHH WAHH and godless came from:

    http://www.somethingawful.com/d/awful-links/diversity-lane-comic.php

    You’re being goon-rushed. Something Awful is a very popular website that routinely picks an “Awful Link of the Day,” a website that is featured, mocked, and then usually overrun with self-identified “goons.”

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 2:12 pm
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    So, Anonymous, Something Awful is pulling the same trick on Zack that they pulled on Palin.

    Who is censoring whom, you liberal goons!

    • Zack R
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 3:46 pm
    • Permalink

    No big deal, Steve T., Norman– as I’ve said, the really stupid/rude ones nicely confirm all of one’s suspicions about the average lib I.Q., and the bright ones, well, they’re fine: I have no problem with opposing views as long as they act nice.

    • Bro
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 4:45 pm
    • Permalink

    Alright, I’ve done a bit of research into national healthcare and as it turns out, the whole “6 weeks for a heart surgery” thing that’s been spouted is false. See, back in the 90’s, Canada’s elected officials just went crazy on balancing the budget, and in order to do so, they hacked the funding of dozens of social programs, and the Canadian health care service was in shambles.

    Now though, the oft- cited pundit example of forcing someone with necessary life saving surgery to wait later than the patient wants to is criminal negligence. The situation in the 90’s is regarded as a failure of the Canadian government, not the healthcare system.

    • Melek
    • Posted July 22, 2009 at 5:38 pm
    • Permalink

    ZaCK,

    Obama says it’s not about him. “I have great health insurance and so does every member of Congress,” the president said in remarks prepared for his news conference Wednesday night…

    http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090722/ap_on_an/us_health_care_overhaul_analysis_2

    What a perfect display of elitist behavior … One system for the elite and another (that of their choice)imposed on the rest of us … If it’s such a great program, how come it’s not for everyone? Uhh? What happened to equality? 😉

    I wish you well 🙂 Melek

    “The essence of bigotry is refusing to others the rights that you demand for yourself. Such bigotry is inherently incompatible with freedom, even though many on the Left would be shocked to be considered opposed to freedom.” ~Thomas Sowell

  8. Zack…time to take out the libtrash again.

    • buckitz
    • Posted July 23, 2009 at 4:20 am
    • Permalink

    Sometimes socialist agendas are like little green apples. You can tell someone over and over again that they really don’t want them, even though they are free for the taking off the tree.
    It’s only when they are sick with explosive diarrhea do they understand what you were telling them.
    I wonder how many of the people screaming for free health care really understand the long term cost?

  9. Brilliant point. One other thing…what sort of quality service can one expect that doesn’t cost anything? What value do we place on something we don’t need to work for?

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 23, 2009 at 6:43 am
    • Permalink

    WW wrote “You honestly haven’t heard of a Christian that’s called for the death of someone? Ever heard of the Salem Witch Trials?”

    That’s not what I said. I said no Christian leader has called for the death of Dan Brown for his blasphemous “DaVinci Code”, or the authors of any of the other God denying and God condemning books recently published. I said there has been no church-sponsored war nor mass murder in the twentieth century. I believe the Salem Which Trials was in the 17th century.

  10. Norman…he’s a troll. A DEAD troll.

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 23, 2009 at 8:27 am
    • Permalink

    David: Please don’t kill the troll. At least, not without due process 😉

  11. Dave: As long as he’s not spouting obscenities I can put up with the rest of the crap– the willful disengenuousness, the purposeful misconstruing of others’ comments, the shreiking self-pity so typical of liberal/lefties (“…you’ve resorted to death threats!!…”) in lieu of a sense of humor. I have no time (literally) to reply to most of these comments this week and so am primarily just sitting back and silently enjoying the angry derangement on display.

    • Elsie
    • Posted July 23, 2009 at 2:27 pm
    • Permalink

    Guys, lighten up. The Zack is just a cartoonist out for some easy one-panel lolz. Cartoonists aren’t good at forming logical or sound opinions. Look at clowns like Johnny Hart.

    If Zach was actually an investigative journalist who actually understood politics (not easy to find, mind you), then you could go in depth dissections of his analysis but he’s just a cartoonist.

  12. Aw, “thanks a lot,” Elsie! I’ll have you know I’ve been picked up plenty of times by American Thinker, one of our most thoughtful & perspicacious sites! That’s gotta be good for at least a LITTLE intellectual street-cred?? Anyway, it’s true that mostly I’m just a big kidder and have no desire to get readers bent out of shape– even WAHH-WAHH.

    Thanks for stopping in. (I think?!)

    WAHHWAHH: No one wants to issue you a death threat, no one even knows where you live. The worse any of us probably wants for you is that maybe you step in a manhole accidentally, or that a pigeon lets loose on you while flying overhead. Like Elsie said: Lighten up!

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 23, 2009 at 3:49 pm
    • Permalink

    Again with the complains about grammar and punctuation! The reason why we don’t know grammar and punctuation is because we all went to publik skools, where requiring kids to learn these things will “stifle their creativity.”

    My kid sister wasn’t taught phonics, so when she saw a new word, she read the closest work she knew of similar length and first few words. This was later diagnosed as a learning disability! She was later taught houw to sound out new words (phonics) as a treatment for her learning (actually, a teaching) disability.

    And don’t get me started about whole language, and math by consensus.

    But I’m so old, when I went to grade school, they called it grammar school, because they actually taught grammar! Now, if you ask a kid to diagram a sentence, he won’t know what you’re talking about.

    Jack: Can you get your webmaster to add a spell checker to you comment poster? 🙂

  13. Zack iz not juz a car-two-nist. Ok, just my rendition here, LOL! Zack is a realist and thinks out his work carefully before he even begins, so he could get his whole point across. These illustrations, as they say, are worth a thousand words. Elsie, you seem to miss out on the detail and 3D effect. You seem to be looking at it in 2D. There are so many meanings and most importantly, so many factual details in “ALL” his work. And of course, there is an ongoing saga going on at the same time. You should applaud him for his authentic and demanded achievements. Elsie, you say on your post “Cartoonists aren’t good at forming logical or sound opinions.” Wow! You couldn’t be any more wrong with that statement. Just because you don’t have that “talent” and cannot comprehend what you see. You should not make these observations. And may I ask please? What are you, a journalist? You definitely aren’t because you aren’t able to form a logical or sound opinion yourself. Or can you?

    • Melek
    • Posted July 24, 2009 at 5:22 am
    • Permalink

    Zack,

    LOL!!! Who Let the Trolls Out? This one seems to have multiple personality disorder. 😉

    Blog-trolls’s raison d’etre: To deliberately post derogatory or inflammatory comments in order to bait other users into responding.

    I wish you well 🙂 Melek

    Grant me the serenity to ignore the trolls,the courage to debate with honest opponents,and the wisdom to know the difference.

    • Norman Hines
    • Posted July 24, 2009 at 8:47 am
    • Permalink

    Koolaid Man returns and attacks WWLAM from the left! Language skills such as grammar and punctuation are tools of (racial/capitalist/etc.) oppression!

    Hey Koolaid! Read previous links before attacking! You might hit a fellow liberal!

    LOL

    • Donna C.
    • Posted July 24, 2009 at 11:33 am
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    Here’s a surprise. Libs trolling, spouting nothing less than foulness and attacks. And then they have the audacity to demand that regulars answer THEIR questions. Here’s the thing “pets”…you chose to come into Zack’s living room. He (nor any regular) is under any obligation to answer ANY of your insistent questions, nor to reply to any of your commentary. You are here as a guest, and that privilege can be revoked at any time. Don’t expect to come here and piss on everyone, and expect us to like it. Most of us have suffered the affliction of liberalism, and have a unique perspective. At least try and make better choices on a higher level than what you have displayed thus far. If you don’t like it, then don’t let the door hit ya. Whine about your “free speech” being trampled if it makes you feel better.

  14. Norman: Good comeback RE: public schools as an explanation for everyone’s bad spelling and punctuation. Maybe all of us can file a class action suit against Big Education.

    • Donna C
    • Posted July 24, 2009 at 12:54 pm
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    WAH WAH (excellent choice of name since you are so evidently crying out for the attention you must have lacked in your youth)…other than YOUR use of “nigger”, prove to everyone that you are as intelligent as you believe yourself to be, and direct everyone to the exact places where Zack, or any regular here, have been as blatantly racist as you just showed yourself to be.

    And as for Bush…if you were to actually check out the archives here, as well as numerous other conservative sites, you might actually discover that MAAAAANY conservatives were anything but happy with Bush. But that reality would mess up your skewed, illogical hatred of conservatives now, wouldn’t it. Don’t go changing any for us. BTW, you were almost missed KAM.

  15. Need any more proof that liberals are the real racists?

  16. Perhaps if you had all taken some linguistics courses in college instead of taking business and engineering courses designed to make yourself the most money you would have learned something new and interesting.

    And I love the LIBERALS ARE THE REAL RACISTS line. At least conservatives are nice enough to be up front about their racism, don’tcha know!

    • Aleks
    • Posted August 10, 2009 at 4:29 pm
    • Permalink

    Jake “Which religions, and where, have wreaked mass-murder and enslavement on the scale of Mao’s China; Stalin’s USSR; Hilter’s Germany (all Big Governments, all atheist)?”

    Spanish Christians, and American Christians did much worse. While Russians killed and imprisoned close to twenty million in the birth of a new republic, they did not commit genocide. The most major succesful genocide was done by Christians, with the help of the Christian church. Twenty million native Americans died, thousands enslaved. As soon as the Native Americans were practically killed off, Christians started importing black people.

    So the origin of the American nation is much more evil then the origin of the U.S.S.R.. As well as, destroyed much more many lives.


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