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    • Guy
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 9:33 am
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    A tragedy no matter the cause.

    A greater tragedy that nothing will be learned from it, because of PC rules.

    The greatest tragedy that due to nothing be learned, it will happen again.

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 9:36 am
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    In Devon’s culture, if by some hypothetical, a white Christian shouted some short New Testament scripture, and gunned dozens of non-Christian folks – would the leftist Petri-dish between her ears concoct some excuse like; ‘alienating anti-Christian environment’-?

    Nope – however, they would be blaming Pat Robertson, Jerry Falwell (no matter the fact he has been dead 2-1/2 years), perhaps include Sarah Palins church in the scapegoating.

    From peering down from that upstairs window ( ref: Emergensea), didn’t Devon have someone / something to blame Sierra’s heart attack on, such as her not having health insurance-?

  1. I, too, remember how everyone blamed every single Christian for the shooting of George Tiller.

  2. And who can forget the PROTESTANTS ABUSE PRISONERS IN ABU GHARIB headlines and the demands of apologies from Baptists worldwide for Lyndee England?

    Truly, Christians are a persecuted minority.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 1:45 pm
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    Yep! We infidels had this coming. But I thought that with the election of our beloved Obama this level of hate crime would be a thing of the past? Why do they hate us so?

    “I, too, remember how everyone blamed every single Christian for the shooting of George Tiller.”

    Yeah I remember reading about Christian hate too Chris E! Good point!:

    Nice little film break Kenny from one of the finest director of our time.

  3. I know, Ikabod: it’s “chickens coming home to roost” time again, I guess. Isn’t it great when the life-long mentor, molder and shaper of the U.S. president’s thinking more than likely approves of the mass murder and maiming of dozens of American soldiers at Fort Hood? (Just as he spoke so enthusiastically of 9/11 as our just reward… our “chickens coming home to roost.”)

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 2:41 pm
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    “Death to religion.”
    Let me know how that turns out for ya kenny.
    Such the tolerant one, you betcha!

    • Ken
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 2:59 pm
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    I never claimed to be tolerant.

    I’d say “death to God”, but it never existed in the first place. However, the concept of God, to which the quote “God is dead” actually refers, does indeed need to be snuffed out.

    • Mark
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 3:39 pm
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    Repent, Ken, while there is still time.

    No-one is guaranteed a single heartbeat, but you make out that you invented everything about yourself. False and ridiculous.

    Which God? The real one who exposes your true condition and has a cure. The others all claim you can do it yourself.

    • Ken
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 3:55 pm
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    A magical sky fairy creating the universe in a week is false and ridiculous. Repent, Mark, for by going to church, you have been wasting your time.

    • Mark
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 4:31 pm
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    Whatever, Ken. I’m not ashamed of the word ‘repent’, the greatest man who ever lived used it a lot. And I notice He didn’t advocate his followers going round killing people to earn points into heaven.

    And waste my time? LOL. There’s only one thing I can think of that qualifies in that regard right now and it isn’t God. Can you guess what that might be? ūüėČ

    • Ken
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 4:38 pm
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    “Can you guess what that might be?”

    Going to Church.

    “I‚Äôm not ashamed of the word ‚Äėrepent‚Äô, the greatest man who never lived used it a lot.”

    You forgot the “n”.

    “He didn‚Äôt advocate his followers going round killing people to earn points into heaven.”

    And yet they do it anyway. Some leader he turned out to be. I guess non-existence kind interferes with that.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:06 pm
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    General comment; I didn’t want Ken to think I was actually reading his posts.

    Why do so many leftists excuse such muder and violence? To say that the man was a Muslim, to acknowledge that he was passing out Korans before he went on a murderous rampage as well as giving away personl possessions and that be believed all Muslims should revolt against the U.S army is NOT castigating all Muslims. Acknowlegding all that is is not to say that ALL Muslims are terrorists or to suggest by any means that most American Muslims are a threat. But this major was. All kinds of red flags were up and he was not removed from the military.

    The only thing I can think is that manyn religious liberals think Christianity is excatly like the Taliban !!) and the religious ones want to be so politically correct and not offend anyone that they talk about combat stress and bullying as a sort of rationlaization for such behavior.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:09 pm
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    I would suggest not even responding to Ken. He’s a troll. He says anything to get a reaction. If he doesn’t get it from one person, he goes on and on until he does. He’s really a bore trying to push buttons.

    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:12 pm
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    I haven’t seen anyone try to excuse this guy. Care to provide an example?

    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:16 pm
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    And just so we’re clear, finding possible causes for his actions is not the same as excusing them. How do you expect to avoid any similar future tragedies if you don’t determine the root causes? And your liberal strawman got it right, Zack – an “alienating anti-muslim environment” is certainly a valid possible root cause. If we want to avoid this happening again, we need to change things.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:20 pm
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    The excuse is amply demonstated in Zack’s cartoon, ie. he did his actions because of a culture of guns or an anti Muslim enviroment. He’s a poor, misunderstood victim of his enviroment. If only people had been non judgmenmtal it wouldn’t have happened. Well b.s. The man made a deliberate choice to try to kill as many people as possible.

    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:22 pm
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    A real example. Not Zack’s strawman. You do know the people in the cartoon are not real people, right?

    And like I said there’s a difference between explaining the causes of his actions and excusing them. It would serve us well in the future to not confuse the two.

  4. Just curious, who has killed more people? Religious people or Athiests in the last 200 years?

    It’s not the people of faith…

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:28 pm
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    At what point, Sarah does all the understanding in the world just no longer wash? I know lots of people who have been bullied. Unlike the Columbine killers or this major, they haven’t gone of murderous rampages. And no I wasn’t using “excuse” to suggest that people think it’s o.k.( although I expect good old William Ayers may be celebrating the death of American soldiers). I find the idea that if we just understand enough about people we can make a climate everything alright ao it won;t happen again terribly naive. But then, I believe in sin.

    • Ken
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:31 pm
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    Hitler spoke of his interpretation of Christianity as a central motivation for his antisemitism, stating that “As a Christian I have no duty to allow myself to be cheated, but I have the duty to be a fighter for truth and justice.”

    Hitler did a good job of bumping up the numbers for religion. 200 seems pretty convenient for you. I think we should really consider a larger historical perspective.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:33 pm
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    “You do know the people in Zack’s cartoon aren’t real people?”

    NO??!! Really??!! I didn’t know that, Sarah. Thanks for laying that revelation on me.

    Sorry I commented to you. I’ll remember not to do that in the future.

    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:37 pm
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    Vegas- the number of people killed by the people that are typically trotted out by that weak point (Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, etc) pale in comparison to the number of people killed in war or murdered in peace time by soldiers and leaders of those soldiers, or civilian murderers respectively. Considering that the global population is predominantly religious, I’d say that the religious ones have killed more in the last 200 years. Besides, even if Hitler was an atheist (highly debatable), the people who followed his orders and the German people who voted for him and allowed him to kill so many were mostly religious. Hitler could not have killed so many people by himself – he needed a large population that was either willing to kill them or willing to turn a blind eye to the slaughter.

    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:40 pm
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    “I find the idea that if we just understand enough about people we can make a climate everything alright ao it won;t happen again terribly naive.”

    Just because we can’t prevent all tragedies doesn’t mean we shouldn’t try to prevent some of them. We’ll never make things perfect, but we can make them better.

    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 5:55 pm
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    Hey, remember when the newspaper headlines once read “WHITE CHRISTIAN MALE BOMBS BUILDING AND KILLS HUNDREDS IN OKLAHOMA CITY”?

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 6:00 pm
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    JFTR. Timothy McVeigh was not a practicing Christian. That erroneous information has been repated endlessly.


    • Sarah
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 6:10 pm
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    Yes, but is that something the papers would have known that soon after the bombing?

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 6:48 pm
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    You don’t have anyway of knowing what William would applaud or not, Chris, nor do I. However, since Willaim Ayers did plot to blow up army men and their girlfriends at a Fort Dix Dance I’d say the chances are quite possible. if not applauding it, he would say they “desereved it.” Ayers has no love for American military.

    I didn’t say we shouldn’t try to understand people and their actions. I think we should. It does seem however, that many liberals have an attitude about enclessly making people into victims and eschewing culpability for their actions. Malik was not a victim. He may have been bullied and that was not good. However, He had a choice not to pull the trigger. It’s too bad that-as a pyschatrist-he apprently did not say “I am in danger or hurting myself and others.” Doctors take vows to help others-not harm them. He btrayed the country he was born in, the army he swore to support and his brothers in arms.
    It’s too bad that these very sick individuals like Malik if they are unable to ask for help don’t take themselves out without taking others with them .

  5. William Ayers was not involved with the Fort Dix bombing and never endorsed harming people with any of the bombings he participated in forty years ago.

    This doesn’t excuse his bombing of unoccupied buildings or statues, but it’s a different order of magnitude of wrong, and I wasn’t the one putting words in Ayers’s mouth, nor was I the one accusing of things he didn’t do.

    • Big Money
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 8:15 pm
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    Well, the sentiment expressed in the comic is correct, so good work.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 11:28 pm
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    Ayers was not involved in the Fort Dix Bombing ONLY in the sense that it didn’t happen. His girlfriend and several other people were collateral damage. The bombing was planned by Ayers; The bomb was devised by Ayers. He was guilty of a plot to kill hundreds of people.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted November 6, 2009 at 11:45 pm
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    See this article (second one down)

    Ayers-Obama media primer

    William Ayers has the blood of real people on his hands including a policeman blown up by sharapnel. He plotted to kill hundreds more. It was not just targeting unoccupied buildings, Chris. However, as you seem determined to clean up his image there’s really not more I can discuss with you. You see. I believe in sin and evil. I think Ayers was a domestic terrorist and, an evil man. I think his wife Bernardine Dohrn was the same. I hope that someday they realize the evil of their actions and repent. I’m not holding my breath, however. There were thousand of people against the war inluding my family mmebers who marched against the war. They didn’t kill anyone nor did they plot to.

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 7, 2009 at 11:08 am
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    Big Money-
    We agree-!

    Who would have ‘thunk’ it-?

    • EFD
    • Posted November 7, 2009 at 3:44 pm
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    The best is when a National Public/Peoples Radio reporter suggested the the Major may have been suffering from “PRE (not post) traumatic stress syndrome”.
    If they would stop shouting “God is Great” while killing people,it would go a long way to convincing others the “they Come In Peace”.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 7, 2009 at 5:44 pm
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    Allow me to the “progressive” apologist for a moment:
    Perfectly normal, perfectly natural for a muslim to say “God is Great”. This is again more islamophobia rearing its ugly head. “God is Great” is even used when muslim fathers decapitate their daughters heads for disobeying. (not that we should judge!)

    “Soldiers reported that the gunman shouted “Allahu Akbar!” ‚ÄĒ an Arabic phrase for “God is great!” ‚ÄĒ before opening fire Thursday, said Lt. Gen. Robert Cone, the base commander. He said officials had not confirmed Hasan made the comment.”*

    See! See! NOT CONFIRMED!!! We all know how American Soldiers lie! If only we had pulled out of, Iraq, Afghanistan and ended our support for Israel, and passed health care. None of this would of happened!


    • Steve T
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 3:37 am
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    At the risk of ignoring old, unoriginal atheist empty-minded bilge – and returning to the subject of Zack’s posting:

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 4:43 am
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    British newspapers have now indicated that Hassan attended the same mosque in Falls Church, VA that the 9/11 jihadists did.

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 9:34 am
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    Yes – Hassan did attend that mosque, and by various accounts, his face would show lots of enthusiasm when the name of his freakiod radical instructor was mentioned (same instructor the 9/11 jihadists had).

    If the Army has the ‘un-PC’ backbone to properly change their MO’s to prevent this in the future, some middle-senior officers are going to get ‘shown the door’ over looking the other way, and a few more will see reprimands (often a career killer for officers & higher ranking NCO’s).

    And, regarding our little Ken-troll and his troll-isms;

    “To educate a man in mind and not in morals is to educate a menace to society.”

    – Teddy Roosevelt

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 2:03 pm
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    Hi, Steve-

    I have no worries about Ken. I see his name and scroll on by. I can’t possibly take so obvious and unsubtle a troller seriously. Ken seem like a rat in cage with the bar. He keeps hitting that bar in various ways hoping to get his reinforecment, ie, the response. It seems rather a sad sad life-doing this on a site which is obviusly from a conservative perspective. Given that, I think I will cease giving even the reinforcment of mentioning his name. I hope that rough places in in his life are made smooth for him. Meanwhile, I’ll enjoy the cartoons and the posts of the people I do read.

  6. Reminder that my name is not Ken, in case you were planning on ignoring the Ayers discussion.

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 4:19 pm
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    We already saw how well actual legitimate concerns and discussions go Chris. Remember Cubano? He never did give me a straight answer.

    • Ken
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 4:28 pm
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    And you chastised me for not trying to reason with these oafs. Glad to see you are coming around to reality, Manny.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 4:56 pm
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    Hi, Chris-

    I said what I had to say. Nothing I say will convince you, and I’ve read enough about Ayers to consider him a thorough political sociopath. So there doesn’t seem much point in butting heads does there? ;^) When soemebody pays me to read posts and respond then I may do so, but I don’t think Zack has the funding for that :^) and he has plenty of commentary without my involvment. I have read and responded on various political dicussion boards for two years now. I’m rather bored by them at this point. This one has the advanatge of providing funny cartoons, a pleasant and articulate cartoonist who chimes in with his POV every so often, some other people whose comments I find interesting without there being a hoard of liberals calling me names. Occasionally-or frequently depending on the thread-I give my POV. If As I mentioned before, if people want to conisder a non response to their posts a victory, that’s their problem. I don’t make it mine. :&)

    Best to you.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 5:09 pm
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    But I am a little confused. Are you the same Chris as Chris E, or do you both wish to act as soft core apologists for William Ayers?

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 5:59 pm
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    @Ken – well you don’t need to stoop to their insulting level at least dood :3 Except with Steve.

  7. There was briefly another “Chris” who posted here, so I changed my name to Chris E. That guy changed his name, so I changed back to Chris on one computer, though it appears Chris E. persists on my netbook?

    Anyway, you made some rather strong and to the best of my knowledge factually incorrect statements about William Ayers, and when pressed on them you linked to a dead webpage.

    When this is brought up, you claim you said your piece. If that’s as much effort as you want to put into posting, that’s your prerogative. I’m sure you don’t care about knowing what is true about Ayers or anyone else you’ve decided is a sinful monster, so don’t let facts get in your way. Maybe you’ll even join in with Steve and accept as fact that I’m a drug-addicted sexual predator. Good luck with that.

  8. I also pointed out that if you could provide any evidence that Ayers planned the bombing of Fort Dix (as you claimed) designed anti-personnel nail bombs (as you claimed) or killed a police officer with a bomb (as you claimed) I would stop “soft core” defending him. I am softcore defending someone who, while resorting to illegal and destructive tactics to protest the Vietnam War, did and does take pride in conducting ‘violence’ against property, not against people. I do think that’s significantly different than hurting people because I value people over statues and buildings.

    I am totally willing to have my mind changed, assuming you can provide any evidence that Ayers did not live up to his own professed beliefs. I have not seen this evidence, which you claim to have in abundance.

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 7:54 pm
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    I strongly concur with your position – however I do not follow your advice as much as I should.

    One most interesting character revelation about these pusillanimous trolls (we know their names) – they have, without provocation, begun to throw juvenile names & smears at you and Wakefield – and you two are so very much restrained and diplomatic.
    Their little minds must be so bored, “scattered-smothered & covered” [ a Waffle House expression] in the warped arrogance of their ignorance,‚Ķ they lash out with old, typical leftist sound-bites and cut & paste liberal bilge from any state university professor.

    How pathetic must be their lives…

    I look forward to more of your contributions – however much flea spray you may require.

    Be well-

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 10:31 pm
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    I get what you’re *trying* to say Stevey…but I wanna be literal here. How are our minds scattered with onions and cheese? Don’t go bringing Waffle House into this, they’re delicious, like your bitter tears~

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 10:43 pm
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    This could have been prevented. If the military had gotten a pair and kicked this bastard out. Yet what would have been the aftermath? He would have gone straight to his local CAIR office and complained about discrimination and so-called Islamic hate so prevalent within the armed forces. At this point his complaint to the CAIR or even the ACLU would have saved some lives. Its troubling that I even have to see that as a possibility.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 10:46 pm
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    Chris- You seem to forget that I spent 30 years a liberal, so having had to undergo a rather sighifican’t transformation in my thinking that meant that I did a lot of reading and reflecting . Therfore, I think I’ve come to the proper conclusions about Ayers as well as Obama. As I said, not working full time for over two years allowed me lots of time to reserach.

    I don’t really feel any investment in trying to change your mind or looking up info for you. In addition, I consider everyone sinners including myself and that everyone is capable of being a monster except by the grace of God. I haven’t called Obama a monster. I just think he’s way over on the spectrum of NPD and such people are capable of monstrous acts as history would attest to. I really believe Ayers and Dohrn did more than just blow up empty buildings, but people who want to make them heroes of the Vietnam was resistance won’t believe that..Even my dear sister who is thorough going liberal (She lives out of the country) said when I talked to her about Ayers “But Ayers is one of the people “we” (our family) would have admired in the 70’s. My mother wouldn’t have admired a murderer, so I think that Ayers was enbraced by the aging hippies
    and liberal intelligensia for so long (My mother was too old to be a hippy; She was a liberal professor) that the fiction that he was a rather harmless hero is the narrative stuck in concrete for such folks. I began asking questions about some of the ideas I had rather thoughtlessly accepted for 30 plus yeas. I had to do that with a lot of things, Chris. so for you to implicitly suggest that I sort of drifted along believing conservatism is just incorrect.

    I have never considered you to be a drug addicted sexual predator (It wouldn’t even occur to me) or accused you of that, so please don’t fo there anymore. You’d like me to remember that you’re not Ken. I don’t think you’re Ken. Otherwise I wouldn’t talk to you. I don’t think you’re a troll. You need to not confuse my consersations with you with your conversations with Steve.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 10:50 pm
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    Thanks, Steve, for your interest in my posts.

    Best to you as well.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 8, 2009 at 10:59 pm
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    Good point. So many people are scared of offending Muslims that they don’t speak up as they should have done in the case of Hassan
    The article Steve posted made this point, “The U.S, is engaged in a glocal struggle with adherents to an extrenist Islamic creed. It does not besmich the Muslim faith-orthe vast majority of American Muslims-to admit that.”

  9. I understand you have no investment in changing my mind. You’ve read things you don’t wish to bother citing that have made you decide William Ayers is a murderer, that’s fine. I think it’s weird that you’re willing to throw things like that around without providing evidence, especially as you’re such a thoughtful and generally polite person, but whatever.

    The Steve T. reference was likening “just repeating things about William Ayers long enough that they are assumed true” to what Steve T. is doing, which is patently absurd.

    I’m reasonably sure he gains a lot of perverse pleasure through imagining he is interacting with gay pot smokers, so I am loathe to break his fantasy.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 9, 2009 at 2:30 pm
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    What has been lacking in this discussion here is the complaints from the neo-libs around here that as a result of this mass-shooting. More gun control is now warranted. I guess this means we can at least agree that the gun was not the central problem here.

    Glad that’s out of the way.

    • MethodistMin
    • Posted November 9, 2009 at 3:16 pm
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    Hi, Chris-

    It’s not like I save links about William Ayers. I’d have to go look up the material in google and as I said since you wouldn’t believe the links I posted anyway, again we get to my original point which is “What would be the point?”

    As fas as Steve. why don’t you just not talk or read his posts to him if he bothers you that much? There are other conservatives to talk to who don’t mention gay pot smokers.

    Take care

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 9, 2009 at 3:58 pm
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    “The military is the problem. Steve is proof of that.”

    Political correctness is the problem. Lives would have been spared had this poor oppressed Muslim been shown the door.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 9, 2009 at 4:44 pm
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    I have not read anyone within this web page more focused on drugs, raping children, mothers, men ,animals, and blowup toys than you are!

    Sounds like someone needs a little attention!

    Kenny wants us to notice him!

    Maybe you need a nap?

    When you have something to contribute to the conversation please feel free to rejoin the group. Come on…. Use your smarty words!

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 9, 2009 at 5:29 pm
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    Crap in crap out Kenny, not my problem. The best post you have done so far is the brilliant film clip from Stanley Kubrick. That’s really all you have done. Then its back to the 8th grade.

  10. *lol*

    Well, Zack, let us STILL not “jump” to any firm conclusions here. Like the MSM, we’ll see the background of horror and terror and other Islamist (the radical ones) shenanigans going on for decades now and find a way this is really OUR fault.

    Well, at least in the sense of not giving enough affirmation and acceptence to those with slightly different programs than ours.

    As to Chris E’s comment, yeah, well, while not “all” Christians are blamed for Tiller’s death, quite a wide paintbrush was used in pointing out the culprits du jour of Bill O’Reilly, fundamentalists, and Janet N.s new bugbear of homegrown terrorists who have an itch with one thing or another about guns, God, government, and abortion.

  11. Yes, but the homegrown fret was emphasized far more by Janet II.

    Just as it was with the other Janet, the Duchess of Waco.

    It was, however, the New Janet who now refurbished the old saw about right wing extremists, and wondered if the homegrown variety is worse than those whose skills were honed to an artform by the Sons of Allah, and also called terror in general “man-made disaster.”

    Also like Janet I, she feels this is mostly an legal/enviro/court issue to be settled by local and international courts, as opposed to long range bomber support.

    All the more reason to not put too much stock in what this latest rehash of the DHS happens to say.

    In light of the hundreds of Islamist attacks, the details of which would fill 100 blackboards since the 1970s, we can rest assured which IS the real threat, regardless of the PC implications for Muslims and by Obama’s take on things in his magical world of dancing ponies and sugarplum faeries.

    And of course the other problem here, Ken, is that as usual these kinds of reports are somewhat threadbare on the evidence:

    ..and this remains even if Bush had reports of the same type on the so-called “right wing”, et al., now updated by Team Bambi to mean anyone is a potential threat who attends the Tea Parties and says something positive about guns in a gun magazine.

    It was Janet II who also updated the files to say that the real fret here is not the Sons of Allah, but rather we need to keep a hawks eye on returning vets and people with anti-government “sentiment”–which can mean half the population at various times down at the local DMV or paying taxes.

    Sorta a wide girth, Janet girl.

    • Big Money
    • Posted November 9, 2009 at 10:20 pm
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    If soldier have gun, this not happen.

  12. Color Man:

    First of all, regardless of what one thinks about the Iraq War (one presumes that’s your target on the issue of “unjust” wars against those Vegas Splendor types whose chief legacy is bloody mattress rape rooms and other niceties of highbrow society, we’re still left with the other bloody fact that as a soldier you do what you’re ******ng told.

    There are very few exceptions. Some are wondering outloud now about the “mission” in Afghanistan being fairly much the same kind of thing, except here our goals are even less clear.

    One would think that big boys and girls (the perp was 39) who at that make 6 figure incomes for something less than heavy lifting and had the freight on their education paid for by the taxpayer Joe Regular Guy, would be a little more appreciative.

    This lunatic never saw the first day of battle outside the rough edges and tumble world of a chow line.

    This is the point where the Left just needs to throw in the towel and finally acknowledge this PC crap is just that, and that we ARE in a fight with the Sons of Allah.

    Hassan’s fight is this, not some kind of secondary, co-dependency, need-of-positive affirmation role modeling or the horror stories of young men shell shocked by the familiar horrors of battle.

    He was–or should have been–prepared for all the above.

    Even the incorrigibly PC New York Times is now reporting that high level inquiries about this character had been going on for quite some time, but got dropped.

    But a dropping of the ball from various intel agencies who can’t quite connect the Jihadist dots is NOT the same thing as this sudden compash on the lords of Terror.

    And, that your best hope now is to drop the Obamaworld dreamland of sugarplums and dancing ponies and finally get a grip that we need to nip this before we have another Gates of Vienna showdown.

    • Big Money
    • Posted November 10, 2009 at 5:15 pm
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    Clearly we need to amend the Constitution so that “Muslim” is excluded from the establishment and free exercise clauses.

    • Big Money
    • Posted November 10, 2009 at 7:00 pm
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    Ah, good point. How about this:
    “Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, especially Islam.”

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 6:08 am
    • Permalink

    Today is Veterans Day-!


    I watched the flag pass by one day.
    It fluttered in the breeze.
    A young Marine saluted it, and then
    He stood at ease.

    I looked at him in uniform
    So young, so tall, so proud,
    With hair cut square and eyes alert.
    He’d stand out in any crowd.

    I thought how many men like him
    Had fallen through the years.
    How many died on foreign soil?
    How many mothers’ tears?

    How many pilots’ planes shot down?
    How many died at sea?
    How many foxholes were soldiers’ graves?
    No, freedom is not free.

    I heard the sound of taps one night,
    When everything was still.
    I listened to the bugler play
    And felt a sudden chill.

    I wondered just how many times
    That taps had meant “Amen,”
    When a flag had draped a coffin
    Of a brother or a friend.

    I thought of all the children,
    Of the mothers and the wives,
    Of fathers, sons and husbands
    With interrupted lives.

    I thought about a graveyard
    At the bottom of the sea
    Of unmarked graves in Arlington..

    – by Kelly Strong

  13. Joseph, as you know the alternate blame (libs are so predictible) is of course on George Bush, for the obvious reasons that trained men who’re adept at the art of killing people and breaking their things cannot withstand the wonderous ways of Allah and his Talibanic messengers, and so either go nuts and end up in the loony bin, or in offering help to said poor guys and make 6-figure incomes while doing it for the Army, end up loony themselves.

    Of course the real loons here are the MSM and the bootlick media, and more than a few pajama-bound liberal bloggers.

  14. PS–when will Chicagoans finally get rid of that horse’s ass legacy from the Daley family?

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 11:51 am
    • Permalink

    Yes today is Veterans Day. For all who have served I thank you.

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 12:14 pm
    • Permalink

    Again with the gaybashing steve? Are you afraid of them? At every turn it seems like you’re terrified they’re going to pop out of the shadows at you? Were you molested as a kid, steve? it’s okay. You can be honest with us.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 12:23 pm
    • Permalink

    Where is Steve’s gay bashing?

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 12:34 pm
    • Permalink


    “- Your beloved San-Fran Sissy [rainbow] Bathhouse flag-?”

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 2:32 pm
    • Permalink

    Hehehe. That is funny.

    A selection for which Kenny to choose from. I must say I did see a lot of those flags [rainbow] up there. Last July visiting some friends. I wouldn’t call pointing out a bath house flag, gay bashing.

    Bad Steve! BAD!

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 3:08 pm
    • Permalink


    The premise that (thank you for getting it correctly quoted) that statement is “gay bashing” is a very illustrative ‘teaching moment’ — to show how very different in the way the liberal-humanist mind works, as opposed to those who actually hold some traditional values, and appreciate how idea’s have consequences.

    First, an essential premise to my deprecating reference toward the homosexual pride flag as;‚Äú- Your beloved San-Fran Sissy [rainbow] Bathhouse flag-?‚ÄĚ ‚Ķis wrong, or “inappropriate” is to assert;
    – this flag symbolizes something noble
    – it represents a country, or a nationality
    – it represents some set of ideals that is worth defending and promoting.
    [And no, do not try to assert is stands for ALL homosexuals – it does not.]

    Please Рyou need to assert what it stands for… Рwhat, exactly-?
    (please be specific)

    I know its history. This despicable flag comes from a militant homosexual subculture who, beginning around the 1960’s seeks to impose their “life style” on the rest of this Republic.
    How do they seek to impose their reprobate values-?
    – They are trying to force us all to accept same-sex marriages.
    – Through the NEA stated & printed agenda, they seek to have grade school children taught that homosexual behavior is another “legitimate” lifestyle.
    – They demand huge amounts of taxpayer dollars to subsidize the ugly health consequences of their “lifestyle”.
    – They seek to squelch free debate and open discussion of how particularly destructive their “lifestyle” is, by branding it “hate speech”, and “homo-phobic” [for those of you who know Latin – this translates to a phobia of humans, or self].
    – They seek to force everyone who holds traditional Judo-Christian values to not be able to express their beliefs, through the laws, speech codes at universities, and current rules within most of the Fortune 500 companies (yes- go check out their HR Dept’s and employee policies).
    [ And for you who support “hate crime” and “hate speech” legislation, YOU support one of the key elements to totalitarianism and Stalinism. That is a simple fact. ]

    – They seek to have churches who hold to the traditional Scriptures, lose their 501c tax-free IRS status.

    – These militant pro-homosexual advocates promote and advocate the confusion that elements of ‘race, color or creed’ are morally equivalent to willful sexual behavior.

    Martin L. King wanted his children to be judged by “‚Ķthe content of their character”,‚Ķ
    Well-? Willful behavior is part of character-!!!

    I stand by my statement [‚ĶSan-Fran Sissy [rainbow] Bathhouse flag]. — NO APOLOGY, not ever-!

    You ‘colors’, what is in this ‘rainbow’ flag that you are willing to defend, and why-?

    And, you have failed to answer a previous question; what specific ‘colors’, do not run-?

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 4:33 pm
    • Permalink

    The Red White and Blue, Steve.
    From all threats foreign and domestic.
    And I won’t run from you.

    • Steve T
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 5:13 pm
    • Permalink

    Given some of your acid-tongue reply’s to folks as mild-mannered and courteous as Wakefield, it prompts reasonable consideration that those ‘colors’ you profess in your name are also found in;
    – the Cuban flag
    – the French flag
    – Netherlands flag (lots of free drugs and prostitutes there-!)
    – the North Korean flag
    – Russian flag

    So many possibilities for where your values and temperament come from… NOT to be confused with what you arrogantly claim.

    I had a mortar sergeant who never went to jump school – but decided to have airborne jump wings sewn on his uniform.
    His article-15 was well deserved.

    Reminds me of you – a puffed-up ‘WANNA-BE’.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 7:35 pm
    • Permalink

    Harvey Milk was killed because his killer got all strung out on Twinkies. Needless to say, Ken I can see your down with their struggle. I know, I know Some of your best friends are gay!
    You have been using homosexuality as a basis for all of your dumb-ass insults towards Steve T, if anyone here is a closet homosexual I think you need to look in the mirror.

    “Just after the game I’ll say:
    “I’m gonna get a beer, what’s you gonna do Kenny?”

    “I think I’m gonna suck some guy’s dick.”
    “Well, I’ll see you later!” *

    *Slightly modified from Eddie Murphy’s Delirious Script

    Cheers Keeny, and wave that rainbow flag proudly.

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted November 11, 2009 at 9:58 pm
    • Permalink

    …You seriously believe the Twinkie defense ikabod? That’s just sad.

    • ikabod
    • Posted November 12, 2009 at 12:16 am
    • Permalink

    Regardless of what I believe, it got Dan Whites charge of first degree murder down to voluntary manslaughter. Bad verdict, good lawyer-ing.

    • Mark
    • Posted November 12, 2009 at 12:28 am
    • Permalink

    Steve T, 3.08pm, great post.

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 12, 2009 at 5:11 pm
    • Permalink

    Also I don’t recall being anywhere as disrespectful to wake as I was to you Steve. All things considered though I disagree with Wake, He’s been nowhere near your level of conduct.

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 12, 2009 at 5:20 pm
    • Permalink

    Moreover Steve, I’m an American citizen, born and raised. Just because I do not agree with your christo-fascist agenda does not mean that I am disloyal to my own country. If those colors meant nothing to me, and if this country meant nothing to me, why on earth wouldn’t I have moved to Canada by now? They’ve got much better human rights treatment, universal healthcare, a tech industry, kickass rally driving conditions, and all the weed I could ever want should I ever decide to rock the ganja. Like I said. I’m not running. Your anti-homosexual rhetoric constitutes a threat to the desire of milions to persue happiness. At no personal cost to you. You can still continue to raise your kid a bigot, you can continue not to like homosexuals. I don’t care. Its when you and yours’ rhetoric impedes many on their rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness. Especially when their only significant difference from you is that they like partners of the same gender. homosexuality isn’t a form of willful rebellion against anyone, it’s an expression of love. If its a choice why on earth would anyone choose to become a part of one of the most persecuted groups in history? if it’s a willfull choice, you make it. Just one day up and decide you like dudes over an attractive woman. Seriously, can you do it? Are you just not man enough?

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted November 12, 2009 at 9:15 pm
    • Permalink

    Because they/we’re different TCD, if you don’t mind me shortening your name. “Change” in any form is bad. The gay rights movement is this century’s civil rights movement, suffrage, etc.

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 13, 2009 at 1:16 pm
    • Permalink

    @Manuel Calavera

    I don’t happen to mind if you shorten my Name, go ahead.

  15. If only easy, half-assed quips truly explained the Unicorn and Gumdrop worlds and fantasies of liberals. Grief.

    They’ve got much better human rights treatment, universal healthcare, a tech industry, kickass rally driving conditions, and all the weed I could ever want should I ever decide to rock the ganja

    Spoken like a true statist, con-artist, and hippy Eurotrash all rolled into one big nasty joint. Got to be kidding me. God help us if you’re not. Bet you’re not. Your ideology, well-honed in the SlipStream media outlets and the morons who run Europe and Canada and can’t figure out what “rights” are and are as confused as eunuchs on their honeymoon night, seems to be that government exists to take care of you on someone else’s dime.

    Human Rights? The laugh-riot named Canadian Human Rights Commission under that tavern mutt Jennifer Lynch, is a MOCKERY of the very concept, and PERSECUTES actual living human beings–not just mere notions and ideas about rectal pumping. One doubt of this should lead you to the case of Mark Steyn, who ironically got nailed for merely mentioning those who DO TRULY violate human rights by showing gory head-hack films right in the street. The loud-mouth imams who now propose sharia law for Canada and whose voice is to be “respected” under the typical Euro-Canadian, mamby-pamby pussy-whip rules of engagement with terror lords and the Sons of Allah, who have free reign from their quite numerous mosques in that wonderful land of Canada and Europe, while the cops just stand there smirking in the face of bloody posters standing around like they need a good dose of Ex-lax.

    Canada, like Europe plays the same con-artist game of pretending to honor “human rights” but bans speech and certain activities and promotions and things like guns under the guise of “balance”–the oldest socialist con game in the book and a blank check that says basically you’re existence is the mere whim of the lords of State.

    It would be more proper to say that Canada–like much of Europe, in seeing the ostracism of Dutch politician Geert Wilders for daring to speak out and then getting banned from Britain–honors merely certain GROUPS’ rights. Not all rights. (There’s a difference that the free-pot-stoner dudes need to learn here.)

    There is no such thing as “free speech” encoded into LAW in any of these lands that liberals like better than America. There is no right to defend your property or your very life on the streets without finding yourself in cuffs and in courts. And God Above (in All His Power) help you if you mock a Muslim or bark back at them for showing gory films on the street and calling for Jihad, etc. Or just mention the fact in print, or even in word on the street. Spending the night in jail or being harassed in the press and the Canadian court system is not my notion of “human rights” of free speech.

    I’m not trying to be cute, or curt, or difficult to get along with–but I’m personally not trading my 15 MINUTE wait list for an MRI when I need lung scans and spitting up blood and mucus and trade that for the “free” version of 10-18 month waiting lists that morons like Pelosi and Reid think are a moral suasion.

    Like the uninvited guest for dinner whom we nonetheless let in the door from the cold and sit down, but who insists on acting like the Eurotrash and burps and belches and passes gas and is unappreciative of true freedom, maybe it’s time to be shown the door.

    Sometimes like is like that.

    So please leave. We won’t think less of you for doing so.

    You might be insane or like most Canadian and Europeans, just immature, a walking adult-man-child who can’t fend for himself or more likely deigns not to, and so in having the state be the final arbiter of “rights” and wipe your noses and arses for you and provide you with herb (on the backs of others who still work a full week and have other designs on life rather than staring into space in Amsterdam or Toronto) or perhaps you’ve decided–again like most euro-Canadian punks–that a comfortable slavery of sucking down wine on the beach on the public dime when your health turns sour, is indeed preferable to a difficult freedom.

    But if that’s your ideology, we are in far more danger of having you just stick around and contaminate the commonweal of free thinking citizens stateside. People for whom the Canada crowd likes to see banned from uncomfortable speech, bans all guns, but allows the imams and terror lords to run their mouths and then barks at others who complain, and has the wonderful compassion of using a Logan’s Run standard for forced healthcare where you pay up or sign up or go to jail.

    American does not have enough prison space or IRS penalty forms for the asinine idea of making criminals of 10-20 million human beings for not SIGNING up for some half-assed Reid-styled healthcare by FORCE.

    George Orwell could not have written a more sour story about the decline of the very notion of freedom and true criminality, vs. that spawned by busybodies in the Senate ignoring the fact that even the NY Times has it on page A-28 that most of us don’t want this shit if it’s done by FORCE. That’s un-American–as well as UNCONSTITUTIONAL.

    Mention that Bush wants to put an occasional glass to the wall to eavesdrop on the Sons of Allah planning to cut living human heads off or blow people into dime-sized chunks, and the liberals go nuts–utterly apoplexies. But mention 5k fines and prison up to 5 years and untold gals with names like Shakalandraniqwas calling you to harass you from the IRS day and night, and they YAWN and say that such is your civic duty to endure.

    So this is not about health–it is, like TR Reid in Newsweek said–about VENGEANCE against those who still work a full day and don’t sit around thinking of creative ways to separate people from more than half their income and hand it over to morons and pipeheads in the Methadone clinics and government bank depots.

    for either the recalcitrant hardheads who don’t want or need the Euro-Canadian “health care” glop and would rather take their chances on cash and hock than 10-month waiting lists for basic treatments. There are more MRI machines in tiny little sleepy town hamlets like Spartanburg, SC than all of Alberta, for example. (That’s the wonder of the evil capitalist system, IT PRODUCES THINGS!– BTW.)

    But still, don’t come around here anymore with input from your idiot pals in the Senate who by the way would NEVER partake in what they’re about to plop in our laps. NEVER.

    Ted Kennedy’s bombastic carcass, I noted, was NOT shipped of to Fait Du Canada, or Cuba’s “advanced system of human rights and compassion” for brain treatment.

    DIG? Put that in your joint and smoke down the whole bag, brother. If you like sitting your whole life at the kiddie table, Canada and Europe ARE for you. Have at it. That kind of immaturity and desire to be pampered and cared for on someone else’s effort and time is more than deserving of that anyhow, I guess.

    And please, please please, understand also one other thing here we’re NOT commonly explained these days, especially from that smirking, constant-committe-meeting-world jet-setter- phony in the White House and his minions of Mao-Skiteers: Whatever one thinks of Euro-Canadian health care and waiting lists and rationing and providing goodies for illegal aliens, they got much of THEIR costs deferred due to them pussying-out of major conflicts as well as a military that is expensive but second to none and more than once shielded their collective thong buns from Soviet adventurism, with much US blood and treasure to boot. We don’t have that luxury even today, even IF we were not involved in two major wars and all the boys came home. The US is NOT going to downgrade its military all that much.

    So in that respect we can’t afford even the frowsy and lousy levels of Euro-Canadian crap.

    Also, politics is different here. We still don’t have the liberal Canadian dream of statist rule, and so our “public option” includes all manner of crap and add-ons missing from similar bills in Europe when their laws were enacted. They just have lousy care, but we’ll get lousy care and so much more–like provisions for illegals and input from the NEA and unions as well as multicultural crap tacked on at the last minute. I doubt even their bills were 2 THOUSAND f***ing pages long. Dig?

    The Euro-Canadians are dumb on a number of fronts, but not quite as stupid as our esteemed congress-weasals in the House always looking to shoehorn something in at the last minute in Obama’s age of “NO MORE EARMARKS” and “NO MORE LOBBYISTS!”.

    But nonetheless please leave. Please don’t ask single men to pay for the pap smears and mammograms of women, or the abortion services of little Jenny who desperately needs to fit into her prom dress mom got at the last minute so she can have another night of high-octane humps before the beer and pot wears off. Please stop asking us to fund free educations for anchor babies who got squeezed out just north of the Rio Grande, and to pay for the lung treatments of men and women who smoked since they were 13 and now that year 70 has hit by golly someone else gets to pay the freight on whatever treatment might still be available for Stage 3 cancer.


    In other words, we have enough problems in our culture without the continued addition of input from the “morals” of liberals making hash out of an already soured meat dish.

    Please go. And take Nancy Egg-Eyes and Reid with you. And all your pals looking for work in the “high tech” industry. Good luck battling it out with Canada’s “high tech” “kick-ass” driving ranges and industry, now staffed on the upper ends by immigrants gearing down the salaries–the high tech equivalent of Mexican gardeners, who program software for 30k a year for what used to demand 120k.

    And doubtful Rajneesh or Punkaj need abortion services paid by the state. Unlike the native population of Canada, the immigrants know better than to pop pills and insert the twats with IUDs all the time. They breed–and OUTBREED–the native population. Something else to keep in mind as the Imams compete with the “Human Rights” beer mutts vying for your attention. Tech industry?

    Who has more production and repair options? The land of sparse MRI machines where pregnant women sometimes have to be helicoptered to ANOTHER ***damned province to have their babies due to the paperwork being botched and a lack or pre-approved maternity beds?????

    Or areas like even the “hicktown” of Spartanburg, which outranks probably 1/2 of Canada in its “TECH” industry and has more of those jobs along with the MRI machines than most of Canada? Gotta be shittin’ me, boy.

    As to the Sharia culture coming to a Canadian province near you: Who’ll win in the end is anyone’s guess at this point. The beer mutt shutting down speech? Or shall it be the rapidly constructed mosques and their firebrand imams still conspicuously NON-handcuffed at this point.

    Who knows.

    But since you think the tacit approval–or at least forced hush-hush, about “honor killing” and strange incidents of teen Muslim girls falling from Toronto apartments is dandy, or that loud mouthed imams pose no threat to the Gay Pride festivals of Montreal, be our guest.

    I’m guessing that it’s no more than a 5 hour flight from most areas in the contiguous US states to Toronto or Vancouver, land of Frisbee tosses and pot parties and a good industry of immported grow lights. umm…like…um…..DUDE!

    But regardless, please split, dude. And have fun with Sharia….and “human rights” so as not to “offend” the headcutters and clitnipper and honor killers of young females. Great…..

    Even IF what you’ve claimed above is the Gospel Truth with no ifs, ands, buts, addendums, or caveats, or lacking important context like salary and the noted cultural disintegration of the ingrates of Canada and Europe who’ve turned their lands into beggar colonies with no more world influence than the Sudan, please …….still GO.

    Freeborn citizens prefer our core rights like guns and speech and yardbirds and speaking our minds and paying the doc good salaries OVER the illusion that life is free of want–and painfree.

  16. Make that Sometimes LIFE is like that.

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted November 13, 2009 at 9:21 pm
    • Permalink

    Oh if only easy, half-assed quips truly explained the Doom and Gloom worlds and fantasies of Neocons…

    • thesecolorsdontrun
    • Posted November 18, 2009 at 3:01 pm
    • Permalink

    You assume a vast lot about me. I work for a living thank you very much. And because what I earn is more than enough for myself and the people I support, I have no qualms about giving money to the government to help them resist the predation of corporate run health care, to support those who are between jobs, or those whom due to the cruelty of their situation are no longer capable of working. The government can disperse those fund much more readily than I can, and yes, fraud does exist but that does not make the ideas behind it bad, nor the act of giving shameful.

    To assert that assisting others is in some way socialism, or bad, I’d like to point you to the fact that Charity is one of the beatitudes. And if you were anywhere near as ardent a supporter of christian traditional values, you’d do well to remember that charity was a core component of the works that the Christ you and others like you profess to worship.
    Except for israel you’d love to just feed that warmongering situation out of some idea of dispensational millenialism and the need for an apocalypse because you feel god won’t love you untill you fuck shit up enough to get his attention.

    See i can make assumptions too, Wake.

  17. Socialism is socialism. And socialism is truly NOT charity.

    The Eurotrash crappola version of this IS in point of fact what THEY call it.

    So you may take the issue up with them as well as Mr. Webster’s modern workforce.

    Charity is then perhaps what you mean to say, but have associated with who the Euros DO it–by FORCE–which IS socialism.

    But forcing people to sign up for something that will plunk down 40% fees on private carriers, give aid to illegal aliens, pay for Jennie to have an abortion so she can squeeze into her prom dress, and on top of all that be far more expensive and require 100 million bribes to the ignorant little slit down in Weesiana to garner her vote, I’d say at this point you have a government service far beyond the pale of charity or “helping people” through rough tight spots.

    On top of all that, not to mention the LYING about this being a “public” option when we knew years ago from Bambi his advocacy was to push the private insurance carriers out of business of time. He’s smart enough to know he can’t just make them illegal in one swoop. So he lied about his ultimate intentions.

    I’d say that’s less than noble.

    And your’s and MC’s glib portrayal of all this glop and crap sandwhiching as just giving a “hand up” and not a complete “hand out” is all the funnier due to the millions of Americans who’ll lose their jobs over the increased fee structure and the deaths due to the increased wait times.

    My God, where to even start on the critique here….

    And no, the “government” is just a smoke-belching, larger-than-life, pretentious entity lording over people with all manner of bureacratic muck-up that in no way can “disperse” funds better than personal choices of millions of permutations and people every day.

    If what you said were true, then in fact communism would actually work better than market forces. We all make choices every day. The socialist dweeb does not actually claim inefficiency on our part–he just hates our choices.

    So your wordly-wise input here is to have the same idiots who gave us the morbid funk of Europe’s demographic death spiral next to the Sons of Allah manage our health care?????

    … and THEN surely knowing the history of the long lines of the morons at the DMV and the Post Office guys whose models of “efficiency” is making 100K a year putting pieces of paper in boxes, or that REALLY STUPID (see program called Cash for Flunkers, plus the whole history of government cost overruns….

    ….IN charge of the whole ball of wax here.

    You assume far too much as well, Chico.


    As far as Doom and Gloom, and MC’s take on all this Glib Blessed Assurance of how govenment makes our lives better, I DO admit freely that the Bambi administration and Tom Friedman agree with you on Red China and Eurotrash being better models.

    However, I’ll stand over here for good measure.

    Thanks for caring.

  18. OH yeah…and that’s not a really good Colorful answer to the…oh what was it called again that threatens the jailing and fining of people who disagree with its dictates…

    ah yes….The Canadian Human Rights Commissison….

  19. I meant to add that in Europe more than one observer has noted you won’t find a more selfish and snarling group of ingrate whiney teen-acting creeps.

    Even as some of their own politicians are warning them that some of these benefits needs to be trimmed and not everyone can have 12 weeks of paid vacation and that something must be done about the permanent 10% unemployment that over here usually gets politicians out of a job–these horse’s asses insiste they’ve got their goody, and so everyone else can just go to hell.

    Not exactly the intent or spirit of “charity” and a “helping hand” eh?

    For 2 reasons:

    1) This permanent state of affairs is far beyond what YOU call “charity”–that’s not meant to be a damend lifestyle. But in Europe, it darn well is…

    2) These ingrates yield to us only anger and ingraciousness, and turn their thoughts selfish and inward, and as Mark Steyn noted, they give not a tinker’s damn about the rest of the world or that their nations are halving themselves population-wise and thus these handouts are ultimately unsustainable.

    Careful what you advocate, there.

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