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  1. To quote Krusty the Clown from The Simpsons: It’s funny because it’s true. (Or was that the Joe Montegna mob character? Hmm …)


  2. Thanks Eric. I’ll have to wait for one of my erudite visitors to get the correct source on that quote; I myself had thought it was one of Kirkegaard’s.

    • Jake
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 11:22 am
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    Homer Simpson.

    If I remember correctly, it was intended to mock observational comedy.

  3. Thanks Jake, I’m not surprised that you knew it. (And suspect that Eric secretly might have as well.) By the way have you ever checked out his blog? Like others of that rare breed, the Jewish conservative, he runs a brilliantly insightful blog that even you might find intellectually challenging to some of your bedrock premises. Well… maybe.

    • Steve T
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 11:44 am
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    It looks like it could be a flash-back for Justice Clarence Thomas.

    Someone ask him!

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 12:12 pm
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    Well, he did feel like a kid having fun at summer camp until Mobami got to him. ;^)

    My son was the only white boy at his particular summer camp program, although there were white girls. I didn’t know that until I saw the camp photo at pick-up time. From what I can gather from my son, all the boys loved the camp. They had a great time swimming and having water balloon fights, going on a stream hike, eating smores and all those other camp things. They didn’t have to wear bracelets to encourage optimum play among various diversity groups or do the other things that Diversity’s father wants at camp. ;^) And I expect that that the African American boys were all too busy having fun so there was no need of Mobami lecturing them on oppression.

    • ikabod
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 3:20 pm
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    Well here’s a little secret. I was a camp counselor from 1979 through 1991. YMCA. I dealt with camps that had kids from all walks of life. Rich kids to the inner city of California’s worst neighborhood. Most of the less advantaged kids where there on special scholarships, thus allowing them to attend camp for free. These where not Government programs but donations and grants from others. There was a few of the tie-dye shirt clad peaceniks that made it very clear as to their agenda. We where to feel guilty as counselors. Guilty as white males of the oppression our forefathers had dealt to the people of color. The kids just wanted to ride horses, archery, go on hikes, catch a lizard, and even have a camp fire. During camp fires there where times when certain “enlightened” counselors tried to get the kids to expose their feelings about racism. These kids had less concern about racism than when we where going on our next snipe hunt.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 3:30 pm
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    Good point, icabod. A number of kids-both African American, white and others are there on scholarships-provided by the camp through domations from individuals and memorial gifts; That is true of the church related camp my son went to. And it’s true, that when you’re coming from terrible urban areas you (along with other kids) want to do fun camp things-probably not as a nine year olds talk about racism. Thanks for your service as a counselor; It requires a lot of energy, hard work and apprecaition for kids to be a camp counselor. The ones at my son’s camp were great!

    • Steve T
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 4:38 pm
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    That ‘white guilt’ is based on a huge amount of ignorance of our Republic’s early history, and all the ‘PC’ crap we are arm-twisted into swallowing.

    1. 130+ years before the US came into existence, European business interests began bringing black slaves to these shores. There was NOT a US Government in existence, there was NO “original sin” on the part of the US.

    2. Slavery was already here when G Washington & the other Founding Fathers were born,… their owning slaves, as ugly as it is, was the ‘status quo’ in those days. In fact, slavery had been all over the known world, for the previous 6-10,000 years-!
    (why is the fact that slavery was here, so darn ‘unique’ of a guilty sin-??)

    3. The beginning of the end of slavery began with the writing of our Declaration of Independence and our Constitution. Recall those words “…all men are created equal”-? The very men who owned slaves, writing these documents self-convicted themselves – and their personal writings reflect this.
    The open & public discussions that were prompted after 1776, eventually culminated 85 years later in our ‘Civil War’, and the rest is history.

    4. NO other place in known human history has slavery been abolished due to the founding principles of a new country, namely this Republic.

    All our race-baiting poverty-pimp hustlers like J Jackson, Al Sharpton – ought to be eternally grateful to G. Washington, Jefferson (and others),… but NOooooo – these shameless clowns have another agenda.

  4. Don’t worry, that Obama kid is persistent. He will get him to understand how he is being persecuted

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 25, 2009 at 7:39 pm
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    Wow. Beautifully said Steve T. And I must thank you for pointing out the indisputable fact that this country is a REPUBLIC…NOT a democracy…as so many try to convince us of.

  5. Why do I keep looking for a “Bud Light” juice-box in Mobami’s hand?

  6. No real comment here, just the usual praise of the highest quality. The art of course, superb! And your freedom of expression Zack, so factual! You are managing to cover all current events with everything you draw, great job again!

    Side note: I still can’t get over the name of the newest character “Barry Mobami”, hilarious!

  7. “Well, he did feel like a kid having fun at summer camp until Mobami got to him.” Good one, Methodistmin, and love the account of your son’s summer camp experience. For the most part America is chockful of groups of multiracial people thoroughly enjoying themselves, unselfconsciously being ‘people’ rather than ‘racial types.’ Unless you’re on the left that is. Then it’s a foul hotbed of latent race-hatred just aching to reinstall Jim Crow.

  8. Ikabod: great real-life background there, confirming what the normal mind can plainly see: that by and large racism is rather minimal in The United States, far less prevalent than in most other Western nations in which the melting pot concept has never been a hallowed ideal. Nearly every European I know is prone to elaborating on the different built-in tendencies of different races and nationalities at the drop of a hat.

  9. Steve T.– As Donna said, what an excellent brief summary of, philosophically speaking, the real race-oriented underpinnings of America. Slavery has been a factor throughout the world, hardly just some American phenomenon, but only the U.S. fought an unprecedentedly bloody war against itself to end it. In the same way, re: our Native Americans, conquest of an endemic population is a global truism, probably the sad legacy of every nation on earth. To make of these horrific (but universal) historical tragedies an American-centric fetish, as the Left does, for the purpose of political gain and to massage their own righteousness, shows either cynicism, mental instability or both.

  10. Thanks Donna, your presence at my blog is a delight– informed and sassy, a great combo. By the way have you noticed the scarcity of Left-leaning commentary on this cartoon? You may finally have worn them out with your feisty argumentation over the last few cartoons.

    I’m always kicking myself for forgetting the essential details like that, Wesley.

    Glad you liked this one, Jose… but, just like real summer camp, alas this episode must come to an end, probably with the next drawing. Hope I’ve come up with just the right summery coda for the whole shebang.

  11. Chuck: You seem to know the kid and his persistence all too well… sadly, we’re all getting to know it.

    • Hysterical Woman
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 5:09 am
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    Steve T: Lithuania banned slavery in 1588. The first French Republic banned slavery when it was created. Napoleon later brought back slavery, but the point still stands. (
    Much of America was built with slave labor. Slaves fueled the economy. We owe a great debt to the enslaved African Americans that we have not even come close to paying. Call it white guilt, but what’s wrong with guilt if you did something wrong?

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:26 am
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    Hysterical Woman,

    Are you white? If so, do Do you feel personally guilty for slavery that happened a hundred or more years before you were born? How does white guilt help modern African Americans? Slavery was a horrible and evil institution and no we cannot repay that debt-unless you’re advocating for reparations to slaves, and I’m not sure how that would be done. What about whites whose families never owned slaves? In addition, many, many people behind the abolition of slavery were white, and of course, the person most directly responsible for the ending of the slave trade in Britain, for instance was William Wilberforce, a white upper class man who never owned slaves.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:28 am
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    Whoops-Typo. Meant reparations to the descendants of people who were slaves.

    • wootabega
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:30 am
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    That kid doesn’t look like he was having much fun at summer camp. It seems like before Mobami came along, he was just sitting by himself while all the other kids were playing.

  12. Thanks wootabega, but no; the kid had been at play with the others peaceably, but was taken off to the side by Mobami for a Teachable Moment.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:40 am
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    You’re quite a card, wootebega. ;^)

    We’d have to ask Zack about the history of the other camper before Mobami got to him, but it could be-since we are speculating on the previous histories of cartoon characters. ;^) that the other kid was playing-and then Mobami hounded him until he retreated to the cabin to try to get away. :^) Or it could be the kids are getting ready to go to breakfast and that Clarence (He does sort of look like Clarence Thomas as another poster suggested) got nailed by Mobami as he was going out the door. Poor kid; Stuck in a cabin with Mobami.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:41 am
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    A “teachable moment”. LOL, Zach.

    • Steve T
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:44 am
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    Hysterical W.
    I did NOTHING wrong, and to hell with the mushy-spineless, squishy ‘guilt’ that anyone “feels” – if you feel it, you were SUCKERED into it-!
    Volunteer to open YOUR wallet-!

    No breathing person alive today had a part in those events from the 17th century. Is that a confusing fact?
    Some stray singular example from Lithuania takes nothing away from my initial submission.

    If you look at the FACTs of how & where this country was built up, the infrastructure of the slave states was an anemic fraction of the industrial North (non-slave states).

    There is no question of the terrible injustice of slavery.
    Guess who else was guilty of creating slavery here-?
    Countless BLACK tribe chiefs & leaders, in Africa, who sold their prisoners to white slave traders.
    How about we find the chain of ‘Black guilt’, find all their descendants, and have them ‘pony-up’ for selling their own people-?

    You are parroting liberal bilge by saying,
    “We owe a great debt to the enslaved African Americans that we have not even come close to paying”

    I owe NOTHING honey,… I was NOT born then.
    By your goofy, mushy standards, how much of the current African population owes something, due to the selling of their own kin, for profits-?

    You have spent too much time drinking the ‘PC’ coolaid.

  13. Zack, I think saying Donna “wore us out” is an accurate statement, but arguing with brick walls is often tiring.

    That or maybe “left leaning” people felt sticking around where people as clearly full of rage as Steve T and Donna C are around is dangerous, lest their persecution complex lead them to donning some white robes and finding the tallest tree, if you know what I mean, LOL.

    (this is just a joke, don’t get your klanties in a bunch! lol)

  14. Good, correct fury, Steve T. Very eloquent indeed.

    Hysterical Woman: An addition to the earlier fine responses from Methodistmin and Steve to your sincere statement, would be this: when we (whites) reanimate and re-enact a “guilt sense,” as if we personally in the current generation were/are (in some ancestrally responsible sense) slavemasters, we effectively encourage in many blacks a reanimation and re-enactment of a kind of modern slavehood. Drench a culture in the mindset that “whites were[are] bad,” and you brainwash many blacks into resenting our society– thus drastically undermining their possibilities for happiness and success. Why encourage, through a guilt sense, blacks to think of America as a racist, malevolent land, when in actuality blacks are doing fantastically well in many cases and in which opportunities are wide open to them? Just ask Oprah. Or Tiger Woods, Barack Obama, Bill Cosby, Eddie Murphy, Michael Jackson, Colin Powell or a thousand other blacks who are among the wealthiest, most beloved and privileged people in America, despite the Left’s perverse, eternal drumbeat that blacks “can’t make it here” or are still seriously discriminated against.

    A racist country does not have innumerable black success stories; a racist populace would not allow such to happen.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 7:29 am
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    Why do so many liberals claim that if you don’t agree with them you are “full of rage”. I haven’t read all that much of Steve-yet-but Donna doesn’t seem full of rage. She simply seems like an intelligent woman with strong opinions and some sarcasm. Is that only allowed if one is liberal woman like Randi Rhodes, perhaps?
    I mean there’s no anger there. LOL.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 7:32 am
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    And for things from one conservative African American’s man’s point of view I recommend Kevin Jackson’s site, “The Black Sphere.” He says white liberals are no friend to African Americans.

  15. Funny stuff, Chris. I like when liberals can jest, even if it’s directed at my side. But, be prepared: Donna may have something to say after that one. I can see her donning her white robe and bearing high the torch even as I write. I in fact am wearing mine right now too.

  16. I think “Randi Rhodes is terrible” is something we can all agree on. Of course I’d lump 90% of other talk radio people in the same boat of being cartoonish blustery nonsense, but your mileage may vary. I honestly didn’t realize she still had a show. I can still listen to the Limbaugh/Hannity/Levin/Ingraham Block of Hate whenever I want on my local station, at least!

  17. Interesting reference, Methodistmin, I’ll look for that book. Certainly “Out of America” by black liberal and Democrat Keith Richburg acknowledged that, though deeply grieved by his ancestors’ suffering, he nevertheless felt gratified that he was born and raised in America, with it’s infinitely greater opportunities, rather than Africa.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 7:43 am
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    Woo, hoo, Chris-

    Something we can agree on; Way to go!

    I have only listened to Rush when I happen to be flipping through the stations, and I gave up T.V. months ago except for “Wipeout” which is an ostacle course game and some things on P.B.S. Therefore, I don’t hear Hannity, etc. I recommend everybody give up T.V. It lowered my stress level. However, I think people on the left and right have their share of politcal shock jocks. I can’t stand Anne Coulter either, and if she were a dumpy 52 year old woman she probably wouldn’t have gotten ahead either.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 7:45 am
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    Kevin Jackson does have a book. It’s called “The Big Black Lie” or something like that, but “The Black Sphere” is his website.

  18. I am interested in having you as a guest on my radio program sometime soon, i heard you on The Conscience of Kansas radio program and would like to have you on the show as a phone guest soon. Please e-mail me back and we can talk further.

    James Lowe

    • Steve T
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 8:32 am
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    Let’s say, just for kicks, that my previous reasoning is ‘all washed up’.

    Our population is very much blended. An anthropology book I had (way back when) directly noted that the “black” population in America was blended to the degree that the average black person was 40% Caucasian. That statistic was 25+ years ago, and the reality is that racial blending has been on-going since, so that statistic could be around 45%, by now.

    Also, this Republic is loaded with folks who came here long AFTER slavery ended, like my ancestors.

    And, as I mentioned before, there are descendants of those African Chieftains, who sold their black enemies into slavery – some of the US black population has their bloodlines in them (Hello, President Obama-?,…hmmm, maybe-?)

    Now – what kind of “fairness” standards do you specify, if a reparations program is going to be instituted-? Think and focus carefully about this.

    It is an impossible nightmare. There is no way to do this. Who do you hit-up with a special tax, and who do you give it to-?

    Also, a significant percentage of the population of Western Europe fell victim to the Viking invasions. Pillaging, enslavement, slaughter, burning villages down, serial rape of female captives,… the ugliness of that fills volumes of history books.
    What do we do about that-? Get a Nimitz carrier group and sail up to Norway & Sweden and ‘kick some ass’, if they refuse to pony-up a fortune in reparations for all other Western Europeans, and all the white folks here, too-?

    The point is, there is no end to the tangled quagmire of impossibilities, when it comes to making up for “…historical wrongs”.

    It obviously is among the dreams of the left-wing, and the twisted values of the hate-filled ‘Jeremiah Wright culture’.

    Here is an antidotal and very simple example;
    Do you all recall a fellow electrocuted in Florida, the serial killer Ted Bundy-?
    Ted Bundy did not enslave women, he slaughtered them, brutally. A little bit more of an injustice than simple slavery (flogging and shackles included).
    Bundy was allowed conjugal visits in prison (years before his execution), and sired a daughter. Is it ethical, or morally proper, for the families of all of Bundy’s murder victims to find this 20-30 something year old young lady, and demand reparations from her-?

    • ikabod
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 10:40 am
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    Excellent point Steve. Indeed who do we give the so called blood money too? All people at one time or another have been at one time or another has been oppressed. The apologies continue. See Racism is a industry, what I like to call the RIC (Racism Industrial Complex), racism is to the likes of Al Sharpton or Jeremiah Wright as Batman is to the joker. They need each other to survive and thrive. Imagine if racism were to end! All peoples living together in peace and harmony. Yes it would be great, except the race baiters, the people of color fighting and shaking down corporations for millions of quilt money will have to find other forms of employment. The last thing these clowns want is equality true equality (unless of course equality means preferential treatment, for “oppressed peoples”.) Racism has been very very good to them.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 2:32 pm
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    As much as I am loathe to even bother with a reply to Chris, I shall…at this point, simply to put the burden of proof upon Chris: you claim I am “full of rage”…back your claim up. And unlike how you may get away with using “feelings” as proof of your claim, know that it will not work here. Provide concrete proof where I have displayed anger in any manner here, toward anyone. Of course I expect you to apologize to me publicly, just as you have attempted to besmirch my name, publicly.

    You CAN do that….riiiiight?

  19. I don’t have to prove anything, you guys projected beliefs and feelings on me and now when I do the same to you, there is recrimination and anger. Why was it okay for you to do it, but not me?

    I mean, I don’t think either of us should be assuming we know the history and feelings of other posters, calling other people Nazis, etc. But I am also not the one who set that tone.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 3:23 pm
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    ROFLMBO! What is it they say? Oh yes…Pwned!

    BTW…again…I must request you provide proof of where I have called anyone a Nazi.

    Did I say elsewhere:

    IF I were to place a label, it would be ““libertarian-socialist”, edging toward “Stalinism”.”?

    Yup. I did. But provide the proof where I called anyone a Nazi. Or, admit you are lying. And apologize.

    Reality is, history cannot be re-written here.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 3:40 pm
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    Also…since you made the claim, please point out where I have projected beliefs and feelings on you?

    I do believe, you and I have had few interactions Chris. You should try reading through the posts, just to refresh your memory, before you declare falsehoods.

    BTW, since you brought up the issue, let’s address a few facts:

    You, and a handful of other rodeo clowns (no offense to rodeo clowns intended), choose to come here…first in an attempt at disruption. When that didn’t work, it was “your side” who began with the insults; the uncalled for foul language; and the vile insults towards Zack questioning his sexuality, and whether he got off on producing his cartoon. (Certainly you recall your asking Zack: “Is the excitement you feel when you get to draw strawman black criminal thugs purely intellectual, or is there a sexual element also involved?” -Chris)

    The point here? Those who live in glass house should not throw stones.

    • Melek
    • Posted August 26, 2009 at 6:40 pm
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    Oh no! That’s so not the answer Barry Mobami (Champion of the helpless)wanted to hear! LOL 🙂

    In Mobami’s world, you have to remain or at least pretend to be a “victim” … that’s the only way you can avoid responsibility and play the “blame game” – aka ” is not my fault game”!

    Great job … as usual, Zack!

    I wish you well 🙂 Melek

    “If you have always believed that everyone should play by the same rules and be judged by the same standards, that would have gotten you labeled a radical 60 years ago, a liberal 30 years ago and a racist today.” ~ Thomas Sowell

    • Longfellow
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 6:06 am
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    Just popping in to mention that a Republic is a democracy by definition, just a representative democracy rather than a direct one.

  20. 2. Even in your response to how you’d never ascribe motives and assume people’s emotions, you’re ascribing motives and assuming my emotion. That is certainly feisty of you.

  21. 3. I don’t have any affiliation with any other “rodeo clowns” you see posting here, so I don’t feel like I ought to be grouped into an organization like that, though if you’re willing to lump millions and millions of people under biter euphemisms like “Religion of Peace” [with scare quotes] I have no doubt you’ll not lose any sleep in lazily categorizing everyone on this site into two camps.

    But again, you are making a ton of assumptions, which is okay because you’re making them, not some SOCIALIST LIBERTARIAN leaning towards Stalnism. How do those two political mindests even intersect, aren’t socialist libertarians staunchly against totalitarianism?

  22. 4. Yeah, I was being a jerk when I asked Zack that question. I would still like to know why Lil Colin Powell or whoever the other camper up in this cartoon is the first non-white character to show up who isn’t a gross fearmongering caricature of the dark-flehsed murderous beasts that wait just outside your picket fence.

    I probably should’ve phrased it more politely, but I doubt I’d have received a real response either way. Since then I have tried to be more civil.

    • ikabod
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 10:52 am
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    “fearmongering caricature of the dark-flehsed murderous beasts that wait just outside your picket fence.” Standard liberal jab Chris. Sorry we don’t look at people of any color stripe as murderous. Your continue mischaracterization is the hallmark of liberalisms squelch tactic towards conservatives or whom ever disagrees with you. Just like I assume you don’t like being called a socialist or communist. Yet again, I have said this before. With the entitlement programs that the left has ensured can never be cut, it is they that will continue to keep people of color poor, uneducated and voting democrat.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 12:05 pm
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    “I fully suspect that Chris, or any one of the other trolls hanging around of late have already reported your comments to”

    You certainly ARE predictable, if anything. I knew with absolutely certainty, that you would try to equate this fictitious email with my calling someone a nazi, as this was the only possible “proof” you could find, to support your false claim. Although you clearly see nothing wrong with our government asking for it’s citizenry to “tattle” on their fellow citizens, I certainly do. As do a great majority. I will not re-write history…you might want to check into world history of the mid-30’s into the 40’s…I do believe it was commonplace for one citizen to report on another, at the request of a certain dictator (and of many, throughout the ages). Use your head…too often people reported in hopes of saving their own skin, didn’t mean they were nazis. Now, your government requested the same…regardless of how “benign” you might think it to be…it never should have been done. Period. And the fact that I even have to explain it, is sad.

    “Keep telling yourself woot. You know what they say about a lie repeated oft enough…”

    HOW on earth, does this even remotely equate to calling someone a nazi?! I know you’re grasping at straws, but cheese and crackers, you should have skipped this one for it’s blatant irrelevancy.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 12:08 pm
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    2. Even in your response to how you’d never ascribe motives and assume people’s emotions, you’re ascribing motives and assuming my emotion. That is certainly feisty of you.

    Again, I must demand you point out specifically what you are referring to. Because at this point, it’s pretty evident that you are looking for insults, projections, etc, that simply do not exist.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 12:13 pm
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    As to your #3 Chris…erm…just who is ascribing guilt by association there? Etc?

    Suggestion for an answer: look in a mirror.

    4. Yeah, I was being a jerk when I asked Zack that question.

    You were coming along slightly, but then you had to continue with the rest of the blah blah blah. Re-read what you wrote…and look in that mirror again to see just who is guilty of projecting and assumptions.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 12:18 pm
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    BTW Chris…I know without question, you would never even begin to consider apologizing for the intentional mistruths you’ve lobbed against me…and I am okay with that. I never expected you would actually apologize. I cannot help but to view you as a bad page in history, desperately trying to relive itself…especially when your actions suggest exactly that. And don’t bother to ask for this comment to be explained to you, because if you need it explained, you’ll not understand it anyhow.

    • Jake
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 12:30 pm
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    “I do believe it was commonplace for one citizen to report on another, at the request of a certain dictator (and of many, throughout the ages).”

    Here are some additional examples of citizens being asked or forced to serve as government informants:

    “that you would try to equate this fictitious email with my calling someone a nazi, as this was the only possible “proof” you could find, to support your false claim.”

    Hmmmm…. barrysbrownshirts….You are aware that “brownshirt” is a term for a Nazi, right? And by claiming that Chris reported you to “Barry’s Brownshirts”, you are implicitly labeling him as a Brownshirt. I guess you knew he would “equate this fictitious email with my calling someone a nazi” because that is exactly what you did.

    “Because at this point, it’s pretty evident that you are looking for insults, projections, etc, that simply do not exist.”

    You implied that he was a brownshirt and claimed that he has reported you. I’d say that counts as insulting him and, although it is not an emotion, you did ascribe an action to him.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 27, 2009 at 12:52 pm
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    “Just popping in to mention that a Republic is a democracy by definition, just a representative democracy rather than a direct one.” -Longfellow

    “A constitutional republic is a state where the head of state and other officials are elected as representatives of the people, and must govern according to existing constitutional law that limits the government’s power over citizens. In a constitutional republic, executive, legislative, and judicial powers are separated into distinct branches and the will of the majority of the population is tempered by protections for individual rights so that no individual or group has absolute power. The fact that a constitution exists that limits the government’s power makes the state constitutional. That the head(s) of state and other officials are chosen by election, rather than inheriting their positions, and that their decisions are subject to judicial review makes a state republican.”

  23. Zack, I love the teachable moment, although I hope I never have a moment like that in my class. I will at some point use your cartoons in class, with your blessings of course.

    • wootabega
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 6:55 am
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    I wonder what’s next. Will Mobami protest the fried chicken being served for Friday dinners, saying that it’s a racist menu addition?

  24. Thanks James Lowe, that’s a kind offer you’ve made. I will contact you shortly via email.

    Sure Vegas, my cartoons are vailable to you any time for Teachable Moments. Good to have you back, and looking forward to checking out your annual teacher’s diary this Fall.

    Donna– what can I say? Your razor sharp responses are a joy to read and I want you as my next senator.

  25. Any chance of getting my previous comment unmoderated?

  26. Chris– I have not marked as spam any comments at this blog for the last two weeks or so; have not “moderated” anything of yours or anyone else’s vis-a-vis this cartoon(if that’s what you’re implying). Please try reposting if you’d like. Am clueless about any reason for a comment to have failed to appear.

    • Jake
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 10:59 am
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    I had a comment between Donna and vegas art guy’s posts or somewhere around there that seems to have vanished. If you haven’t intentionally deleted any comments in response to this comic, you may want to make sure wordpress isn’t having some issue with the comment section.

  27. I will contact WordPress, Jake. Thanks for the input. As said, have not deleted or marked as spam anything in a couple weeks– not since that big spate of angry, across the board “F this, F that” material a while back. Sorry your comment got lost.

  28. It looks like my comments are being caught in moderation because they included URLs.

    Here’s a URL free version:

    Donna, I encourage you to google (or plug into wikipedia) the terms “Brownshirts” and “Big Lie” respectively. They’re both generally accepted as codewords for “Nazis”. I assumed you knew that when you were using them, perhaps I was wrong.

  29. I’m amazed that you libs come here and complain about overmoderation. No such complaints when you’re amongst your ideological brethren at DailyKos & MoveOn.

  30. I’m amazed that you interpreted what I did as “complain”, I was merely wondering why a post was moderated and to make it clear, it was nothing Zack did to moderate me — I posted a couple of links to Wikipedia, which flagged the post to be moderated.

    Zack is not at fault. I also don’t post on DailyKos or MoveOn.

    Donna, if you’re wondering, this is the sort of assumption and ascribing affiliation: I make a comment about a post being stuck in moderation and all of a sudden I’m part of a big Group of Libs that censor people on DailyKos. That is awesome.

  31. You’re a troll nonetheless.

  32. The definition of a troll is not “someone who disagrees with you”, no matter how hard you would like that to be the case.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 5:33 pm
    • Permalink

    “Donna, if you’re wondering, this is the sort of assumption and ascribing affiliation: I make a comment about a post being stuck in moderation and all of a sudden I’m part of a big Group of Libs that censor people on DailyKos. -Chris”

    I must ask you Chris, how is what you’re accusing others of, any different than these comments of yours?

    “Norman Hines: go tell George Tiller about how conservatives are the tolerant and reasoned protesters.

    Oh wait, you guys murdered him!

    I guess you could go talk to Pittsburgh’s police department about the Right’s record of tact and de– wait, no you guys murdered three of their officers. Oops!

    I’m sure the fine folks at the Holocaust Museum or anyone who’s had a loved one’s funeral picketed by the Westboro “God Hates Fags” Baptist Church would know that Liberals are the TRULY intolerant, disruptive force in public debate today.” -Chris

    Aren’t you the hypocrite!

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 5:35 pm
    • Permalink

    “In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion.”

    If the troll fits….

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 5:54 pm
    • Permalink


    Surely you don’t think George Tiller represents everyone opposed to abortion?
    All major groups oppsed to abortion gave strongly worded statements denouncing his actions. Also, do you think that the man who murdered the security guard at the Hollocaust Museum was a conservative? He was a reactionary, his family hadn’t spoken to him in years and they thought he has serious mental problems, Please don’t tag all these people as being representative of conservatives.

    • Methodistmin
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 5:56 pm
    • Permalink

    And BTW, I don’t know a single conservative who has anything but contempt for the tactics of the Westboro Baptist Church-which BTW, is made up largely of the relatives of the pastor. This would include conservative people of religious faith.

  33. All of the statements I made above were in direct response to lumping all “libs” into a monolithic group, the sort that automatically supports Stalinism, considers Obama to be The Messiah, protest against Meet Me At the Flagpole, moderate comments on DailyKos, etc.

    The examples given were people who, if I or others are to be held responsible for the acts of The Monolithic Left, should be lumped in and defended by The Monolithic Right. This is a patently unfair thing to do, and it’s nice that you recognize when it’s being done to you. I only ask you extend the same courtesy to others.

  34. And unlike the possibly misused codewords on the part of Donna C, David Waldman straight up referred to “lib nazis”, in case anyone is still wondering where I am getting this “Nazi” sentiment from.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 6:27 pm
    • Permalink


    So, we’ve come to the jist of it now…it’s a matter of who said what about whom, first. It would seem you are saying your commentary is okay, because it was in reply. If that truly is the case…since when have two wrongs made a right? Simple put, there is no way to know which side of the fence ultimately lobbed the first volley. Your chastising others for the very actions you yourself are guilty of, is hypocritical.

    As for this this particular exchange on this cartoon thread, you were the one who apparently felt a need to start with the attacks. The ONLY comment I had made, was in reference to the way Steve T addressed white guilt. It wasn’t even about the cartoon…but you clearly felt the need to insult me. Since then, you have whined, misconstrued words to your convenience, and blatantly lied about me. You appear to have quite the superiority complex, especially evidenced by your refusal to admit that what you have claimed against me, is ad hominem at best…nor have you apologized. As I stated earlier, I fully suspected you would never do so, and I stick by that. We may not share the same viewpoints, in many aspects of our lives, I suspect…but that does not equate to hate. I recognize that…do you? If you’re as honest as you attempt to portray yourself as here on Zack’s blog, you’ll know what the next step is. So, are you honest?

  35. Two wrongs don’t make a right, but I’d like other people to admit that what we’re talking about is “two wrongs”.

    I don’t think anyone here should be forced to defend Scott Roeder or Fred Phelps or anyone else, unless they specifically choose to support that person. To do so is wrong.

    To expect people to defend [insert person you don’t like here] because “they’re both libs” is also a wrong, but a wrong I don’t see anyone, including you, acknowledging.

    Pointing out hypocrisy is not the same thing as practicing it.

    I am honest, and I am honestly not going to apologize for throwing out a mild insult about your debating style. It wasn’t polite, but no one else is being polite here either.

    Here’s my question to you: what do you think a Brownshirt is? Do you think that calling other people Brownshirts is respectful?

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 9:42 pm
    • Permalink

    Again…point out where I called anyone here a brownshirt. You can’t. Period. You are a liar. Period. And you are dishonest. Period. You know it. I know it. Everyone here knows it. No matter how you try to pretty up the package you present, it is still the same package. And again, I must point out that you are being a hypocrite. You are calling people out for the very same things you are doing…only you are trying to defend yourself by saying that when you do it, is is in reply, or in defense, etc. And that is a weak argument, at best. You have proven time and again that you are not only a poor debater, but a lazy one. The only way you found any information to remotely be used to defend your stance, was via my pointing them out! Once you’ve grown up a little, come back, and I’d be more than happy to spar with you some more…figuratively speaking, obviously…just pointing that out because the obvious seems to confuse you. You’ve been checkmated. Accept it, and weep into your pillow if you must.

    • Jake
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 10:41 pm
    • Permalink

    “Sorry your comment got lost.”

    No worries. Things disappear on the Internet often enough to not really matter. I’ll leave Donna and Chris to their lovers’ spat.

  36. Donna, what do you think a Brownshirt is?

  37. And as a final word on the “hypocrisy” issue, the very post you keep quoting ends with:

    “Don’t get me wrong, Norman, I’m sure you (and Zack) do not agree with all (or even any) of the “protests” I’ve mentioned, but if you want to talk about society as if it’s a team sport where it’s All the Liberals vs. All the Conservatives and want people to account for all Liberals, I sure hope you’re ready to open up that Big Tent and stand behind the actions of Your Teammates. It’s a terrible way to do things, but I’m not making the rules here.”

    I’ve never said this was a good or appropriate way to have an argument. I am not a hypocrite, any more than a parent who asks “if Jimmy jumped off a bridge, would you do that too?” is a hypocrite for then taking a firm anti-bridge-jumping stance afterwards.

    • Jake
    • Posted August 28, 2009 at 11:36 pm
    • Permalink

    Maybe this?

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:04 am
    • Permalink

    Chris…you want me to answer your question, yet you continue to ignore mine, which was asked first. Where EXACTLY did I call anyone here on DL a brownshirt?

    As for your bridge analogy? It simply doesn’t hold weight.

    Would it make you feel a bit more warm and fuzzy if I said you are employing a double standard? Is “hypocrite” too strong a word for you? Perhaps it should be outmoded?

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:08 am
    • Permalink

    “And as a final word on the “hypocrisy” issue, the very post you keep quoting ends with:

    So…quoting something once, equates to “the very post you keep quoting”? That implies numerous times. Again with the lies.

  38. Let’s go full circle and call you a brick wall and be done with it.

    • Jake
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:19 am
    • Permalink

    You spin me right round, baby
    Right round like a record, baby
    Right round, round, round

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 11:35 am
    • Permalink

    You’re right Chris…it’s much easier to “throw out a mild insult” than to admit for everyone here to see that you CANNOT point out where I specifically called anyone a brownshirt.

    You were too easy. Like I said previously, learn how to debate, and then come back. All you’ve mastered at this point, it would seem, is deflection, lying and red herrings. And those are not debating skills. Those are “tuck tail & run” skills.

    Try some honestly…both intellectually and otherwise. It does a body good.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 12:27 pm
    • Permalink

    Oooooh, nice try. But let’s figure the equation…

    Do I believe our government has become far too over-reaching? Absolutely.

    Do I believe there are many similarities between the way BarryBoy and his cronies are trying to run the government, and a government of the 1930’s, run by an Austrian? Absolutely.

    Did I create the email address “”, and encourage citizenry to essentially nark on one another? Absolutely NOT.

    Are you the one whom all but openly admitted you had little issue with the email reporting? Absolutely.

    Did I create a fictitious email, in reference to the WH email tactic? Absolutely.

    Did I call you, or anyone here on DL, a Nazi? Absolutely NOT.

    Have I misconstrued your words to attempt to make a point? Absolutely NOT.

    Have you misconstrued my words to attempt to make a point? Absolutely.

    I can go on and on if you’d like, with such examples of how I said:

    “you know what they say about a lie repeated oft enough…” -Donna

    which you then misconstrued into:

    “Big Lie” -Chris.

    Being dishonest does not help make a point. It just shows everyone that you’re dishonest.

    You claimed I called you a nazi…which was not true. When you were called on it, and couldn’t back the lie up, you changed tactic, and said the following:

    “David Waldman straight up referred to “lib nazis”, in case anyone is still wondering where I am getting this “Nazi” sentiment from.”

    Just who is ascribing emotions and feelings here? David said it, but you guilted me for it!

    Your dishonesty is only furthering you into the corner. And proving to everyone what you really are.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:09 pm
    • Permalink

    How much stock DO you own in Red Herring Inc.?

    BTW…at least learn your history, if you’re going to try to use it to lend credibility to yourself.

    “A lie told often enough becomes truth” -Vladimir Lenin.

    Unless you’d like to go back even further, to:

    “There’s nothing so absurd that if you repeat it often enough, people will believe it.” -William James (1842-1910)

    Words are dangerous. Riiiight?

  39. The swastika also has a long history prior to the 1930s.

    If someone puts a swastika on a picture of George W. Bush, do you think it means that person associates the Bush administration with Hindu mythology?

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:19 pm
    • Permalink

    I have to comment on the comedy that you are becoming Chris. You have gotten yourself into a lather over insults fabricated by none other than yourself. You’ve repeatedly made false claims against myself…though now you seem to be moving to an “implication” stage. Between you and I, the only one who has done any direct insulting, is you. Mild or not, they are still insults. I’ve been pretty tolerable of your weak arguments up to this point…but in truth, you’re not even challenging. Work on it, or disengage.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:21 pm
    • Permalink

    Another red herring? *Sigh* See my previous statement. A word of advice: stay on the porch.

  40. Donna, you’re the only person in a lather here. You’re repeatedly calling me a liar and a hypocrite and telling me to “stay on the porch” whatever that might mean.

    This discussion is beyond useless. If you would like to believe that you’ve won this battle, go ahead. I won’t comment about this anymore. Go fight the good fight about something else.

    • Donna C
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 1:31 pm
    • Permalink

    “I won’t comment about this anymore.”

    Is that a collective sigh of relief I hear?

    Take your own advice…it will open up a world of wonder. The TRUTH will set you free.

    *Waving a cheery good riddance*

    • ikabod
    • Posted August 29, 2009 at 8:42 pm
    • Permalink

    I know I got this wrong. You would’nt be implying that forwarding emails of those not agreeing with Obama’s health care debate is at the same level of civic duty as reporting an actual crime? You know a crime right: fraud, theft, murder and rape…..

    • ikabod
    • Posted August 30, 2009 at 11:45 pm
    • Permalink

    That is the problem with liberals. Debate regarding a program that will cost in the trillions is NOT to be discussed. What the hell? If those who where against the war in Iraq had there emails and correspondence sent to The screams from the ACLU, civil rights groups countrywide would be loud and clear. Discussions on yet another entitlement program that fundamentally change a large segment of our economy should be we discussed, debated and analyzed. “Fraudulent claims”, is a rather strong wording coming from the so-called protectors of free speech. Yet you clowns are not finished there, no no no! Apparently any negativity should be squashed! John Mackey, CEO of Whole Foods published an opinion, about health care. And what the lions of free speech do next? Why lets boycott his company, the super market of organic foods, environmentally friendly consumer products should pay the price for his right to free speech. That’s pure, uncut absolute bulls$%&. I could care less about what people think, nor say about the war in Iraq, however, I’ll be damned if those who disagree to be muzzled to speak out against it. Same goes for those who speak out against nationalized healthcare. The only glimmer of hope is that country is waking up to the sham they elected. The hypocrisy is astounding.

  41. ikabod, you continue to conflate “speaking out against” something with “making fraudulent claims”.

    You also are equating “responding to and criticizing fraudulent claims” with “muzzling”.

    THIS IS THE PROBLEM WITH YOU CONSERVATIVES CLOWNS (actually just with ikabod but let’s all continue to paint with insanely broad strokes)

    Where was your fervent love of the freedom of speech for the past eight years?

    • Jake
    • Posted August 31, 2009 at 3:35 am
    • Permalink

    The last eight years never happened.

    • Manuel Calavera
    • Posted August 31, 2009 at 12:37 pm
    • Permalink

    We have always been at war with Asiarabia.

    • ikabod
    • Posted August 31, 2009 at 3:41 pm
    • Permalink

    Making “fraudulent claims” between to private citizens is not illegal. And even a op ed peace regardless of its accuracy is still NOT illegal. If that is what you want to call it. And as for freedom of speech for the past 8 years I can only point to Cindy Sheehan. I think she exercised that right without problems from the right and locked up for subversive speech. You set a very dangerous standard here for future discussions here in this country. Whats next Chris, re-education camps?

  42. When did anyone mention locking anyone up?

    If you’re not willing to have a conversation about things that actually happened vs. paranoid nightmare scenarios, why are we talking?

    • Jake
    • Posted September 1, 2009 at 12:02 am
    • Permalink

    “When did anyone mention locking anyone up?”


    • ikabod
    • Posted September 1, 2009 at 1:35 am
    • Permalink

    “Where was your fervent love of the freedom of speech for the past eight years?” You brought it up. As if freedom speech had been somehow restricted during the Bush Administration? Excuse me for making that assumption that you where making reference to the Patriot act.

    • Longfellow
    • Posted September 2, 2009 at 10:08 pm
    • Permalink

    Donna, I appreciate the quote regarding the definition of a constitutional republic, but the point still stands – a constitutional republic is still a representative democracy. Although as I’ve come to understand researching it a little since, I see “constitutional republic” in general US usage has come to mean what amounts to a “representative democracy with benefits,” as it were, so we’re more or less already on the same page here on this. More or less.

    • Longfellow
    • Posted September 2, 2009 at 10:10 pm
    • Permalink

    Although interestingly apparently one of the other accepted terms in political science for the basic structure of the US would, I imagine, chap your thighs somewhat:

    Liberal democracy

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